The best build for Garr?

#1TendofanPosted 8/10/2011 6:52:56 PM
Generally speaking, Peco beats Garr in every area outside his specialty. So my proposition is this; if we focus on Garr's strengths, which I believe lie in his power and higher-than-average critical-hit rate, we can raise him up to be a usable character.

First of all, I think his Master should be Hachio. Hachio gives the same boosts as Bunyan (+2 HP, +2 Pwr, +1 Def) with the added bonus of raising crit rate (in Garr's case, he goes from 8% chance to crit up to 11%. Basically meaning he goes from 1-in-12.5 chance to 1-in-9). I think this is better than Fahl+Last Resort because Garr doesn't have as much HP as Peco (who can actually make that strategy work), so having him at the front of Attack Formation with no Defense can only end in disaster. With Hachio, Garr can still take some hits and score his kills. Plus, having Garr on Fahl only emphasizes the fact that he's a suckier, but buffer, Peco.

With this strategy, however, Garr will have even less AP than usual. But I don't think this matters at all, since I don't believe techniques can get critical-hits (other than Shadowwalk). If they do, then some levels on Giotto won't hurt that much.

Anyway, I'd appreciate some feedback on how to improve our Guardian friend.
#2Warri0r_Drag0nPosted 8/11/2011 2:48:35 AM
never gitto, ever.
#3xerostarr83Posted 8/11/2011 3:31:46 PM
I usually raise Garr with Meryleep for a bit then switch him over to Deis. It isn't the best setup by far unless you're planning on pumping him with loads of stat boosters (which I usually do). For just a basic master set up with out loading him up on magic shards/power foods etc, Bunyan would work decently enough. It would still be necessary to boost his agility a bit since he gains it so slowly and most of his best equipment weighs a ton, unless you don't mind him going last almost everytime (which is also completely useable as well).

Most of my playthroughs I have him run Super Combo, Double Blow, and Last Resort (only there for quickly boosting his power against Berserkr's/Archmages who's physical attacks/mind sword kill him in one hit anyway). But most of the time he's one of my secondary characters who I rarely use. If he's going to be one of your main 3, there's always Aura/focus (if you're using Ryu's force forms more than his Kaiser one), Triple Blow, or War Shout. I try to get his agility to be around 50/60, his attack around 450 with the Beast Spear equipped, and his Def near 350 or so at lv 50. Stealing stat ups and abusing the faerie village gift ability can help you bolster him up some. Relay point A is a good place to train a bit so you can gather up Magic Shards from Reapers. That way you can cast SuperCombo/Aura/ShadowWalk more often. A Spirit Ring isn't a bad idea for him either, although there are better options since Magic Shards can be easily farmed.

I dunno if that helps at all, but just some ideas. Our playstyles might be vastly different n.n
#4LordkillPosted 8/12/2011 4:15:38 PM
long as he has enough AP to do multiple shadowalks, he's all good.
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I am the punishment of God.
If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.
#5Tendofan(Topic Creator)Posted 8/12/2011 6:32:51 PM
Spamming stat boosters is an easy way to make any character good, even Nina. So I prefer not using them. I also don't bother with Garr's agility BECAUSE his equipment weighs so much. In my mind, it equates to something like 100 Agility on Rei, Ryu or Momo will be the same as 80 Agility on Garr (Beast Spear and Gideon's Garb together are 27 Weight).

Garr at level 99, on a Master that provides no AP gains or losses, will have a max AP stat of 47. That's not even enough to cast Shadowwalk six times. Since there are no Masters that raise both Power and AP (other than Deis, but she has useless Int/Agi gains and greatly reduces Garr's durability), there is a point where having Garr on an AP Master (like Giotto/Emitai) will hurt more than it will help. Giotto gives +3 AP for -1 Power. I think that's the best tradeoff to suit our needs if not used too much. So now I ask you: How long do you (nobody in particular) think Garr should be on Giotto to best make use of Shadowwalk/Triple Blow/SuperCombo/Aura? And who should be his Power-boosting Master?
#6Warri0r_Drag0nPosted 8/13/2011 2:41:50 AM
Tendofan posted...
Spamming stat boosters is an easy way to make any character good, even Nina. So I prefer not using them. I also don't bother with Garr's agility BECAUSE his equipment weighs so much. In my mind, it equates to something like 100 Agility on Rei, Ryu or Momo will be the same as 80 Agility on Garr (Beast Spear and Gideon's Garb together are 27 Weight).

Garr at level 99, on a Master that provides no AP gains or losses, will have a max AP stat of 47. That's not even enough to cast Shadowwalk six times. Since there are no Masters that raise both Power and AP (other than Deis, but she has useless Int/Agi gains and greatly reduces Garr's durability), there is a point where having Garr on an AP Master (like Giotto/Emitai) will hurt more than it will help. Giotto gives +3 AP for -1 Power. I think that's the best tradeoff to suit our needs if not used too much. So now I ask you: How long do you (nobody in particular) think Garr should be on Giotto to best make use of Shadowwalk/Triple Blow/SuperCombo/Aura? And who should be his Power-boosting Master?


Goitto - taken from masters faq.
HP+4
- AP+3
- Power-1
- Defense-1
- Agility-1
- Intelligence-2

as you can see it hurts more than just his power. Definitely not worth it, Garr does not need int, or speed as much. Power --> Bunyan/Ladon(end game), Defence/HP --> Fahl, Agility --> Meryleep, Ap - Deis/Emtai.
#7Tendofan(Topic Creator)Posted 8/13/2011 12:29:42 PM
Warri0r_Drag0n posted...

Goitto - taken from masters faq.
HP+4
- AP+3
- Power-1
- Defense-1
- Agility-1
- Intelligence-2

as you can see it hurts more than just his power. Definitely not worth it, Garr does not need int, or speed as much. Power --> Bunyan/Ladon(end game), Defence/HP --> Fahl, Agility --> Meryleep, Ap - Deis/Emtai.


You yourself said that Garr doesn't need Agi or Int, which I agree with completely. That leaves us with +4 HP and +3 AP for -1 Pwr and -1 Def.

Like this:
- HP+4
- AP+3
- Power-1
- Defense-1

IMO, the +4 HP makes up for the -1 Def. Also, the -1 Pwr isn't going to drastically affect a character whose Power stat is the highest in the game unless left there for a long time, which I'm not planning to do. I was thinking about long enough to get all the skills. That's 8 levels, which means +24 AP. That's more than half of what he gains naturally in 99 levels and I think -8 Pwr is a fair trade.

If you're really that against it, I probably won't do it. In my mind, it's either Hachio for the criticals on Garr's normal attacks or Giotto/Deis for AP + Shadowwalk. I prefer my Hachio method because it's different and gives Garr some personality other than being Peco's shadow. Plus, it sounds totally viable, to me, on paper.

As good as Fahl is, I'd really prefer not using him, for reasons I mentioned earlier. Same with Deis and Meryleep (and by extension, D'lonzo). I do plan on using Bunyan as a stand-in for Hachio, since you don't get Hachio until fairly lategame.
#8LordkillPosted 8/13/2011 6:21:59 PM
I just put him on Emitai for a few levels, I mean really, Garr can't be hurt by a master physically because his natural gains are awesome, thats why they give him such low AP because if it were high, he'd be nigh unstoppable.
---
I am the punishment of God.
If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.
#9firenoodlesPosted 8/27/2011 2:43:06 AM
Alright I guess I should post some stats / information first.


Garr Starting stats (13)

HP AP PWR DEF AGL INT
-------------------------------------
99 7 58 44 17 21
-------------------------------------


Lets say you beat the game with a decently leveled Garr at 30.

Base Garr(30)

HP AP PWR DEF AGL INT
-------------------------------------
208 21 132 100 29 48
------------------------------------

Garr's natural stat growth has good hp/ def/ power with horrid ap/ agl/ int so his strengths would be either a physical attacker(He just doesn't have much of a ap pool for skill usage so I'll assume you'll be mostly using normal attacks) or a tank. Now I'll list his growth under some different masters.

Bunyan's stat growth

HP AP PWR DEF AGL INT
-------------------------------------
2 -2 +2 +1 0 -3
------------------------------------

Bunyan Garr(30)

HP AP PWR DEF AGL INT
-------------------------------------
242 9 200 117 29 21
------------------------------------

34 hp, 17 def, 68 pwr, -27 int, -13 ap difference
Total Negative stat points 40 (Loses a bit of int, for a small amount of speed)
Gain 119

Hachio's stat growth

HP AP PWR DEF AGL INT
-------------------------------------
2 -2 +2 +1 -1 -1

Hachio Garr(30)

HP AP PWR DEF AGL INT
-------------------------------------
242 9 200 117 19 34
------------------------------------

34 hp, 17 def, -14 int, 68 pwr,-13 ap difference, -10 agl
Total Negative stat points 37 (You get more int, for spells you'll never or rarely use)
Gain 119

Fahl's stat growth

HP AP PWR DEF AGL INT
-------------------------------------
4 0 +1 +3 -3 -3

Fahl Garr(30)

HP AP PWR DEF AGL INT
-------------------------------------
276 21 149 151 17 21
------------------------------------

76 hp, 51 def, -27 int, 17 pwr, -12 agl
Total Negative stat points 39 (Note he doesn't lose any ap)
Gain: 144

There are some levels before 30 where you can use a master without any negative stat loss here are the ones that I noticed.

Fahl 28
Bunyan 8, and 24.
Hachio none


Now that I've listed some stats / information, My opinion is Bunyan wins for a physical attacker just on the basis that agl is still a better stat than int (Higher agl at least gives a small chance of going high in the turn order). Hachio gives a bunch more int(Useless stat, considering you don't have the ap to cast spells much if at all) .

As for getting some ap for skill usage the only thing I could think of is sacrificing alot of levels under Emitai so you can at least use a few skills ( 10 levels = -20 pwr, - 20 def from base garr for 40 ap, in the worst possible case which would give 5 shadow walks, or 2 auras).
#10Tendofan(Topic Creator)Posted 8/27/2011 2:39:52 PM
Endgame Garr at level 30 with endgame equipment, (Beast Spear +15 weight, Aries Gloves +2 weight, Gideon's Garb +12 weight and Tiger Cap +1 weight) will be too heavy to make use of Bunyan's no-Agi-drops. Perhaps at level 40 when he's gained the extra +7 level up Agi points and reached a total of 36, but that's still only 6 Agi for Garr to use. This means no EX turns on anything that can survive two hits and in that regard, it's essentially as useful as 0 Agi.

Garr with 2 Speed Boots and casting Speed on him a couple times might be viable. There are other ways to use two accessory slots, though. So it might not be the best thing to do. Any thoughts on this, perhaps? Like other accessories?

I do agree with you on Bunyan being the better Master, but the more time Garr's apprenticed to Bunyan means less time for Garr to make use of Hachio's Critical +3, which is what I really want to see. A 1-in-9 chance to get a free Shadowwalk is originally what I had planned with this setup in the first place. I appreciate your insight. It got me thinking about things. Like the 2x Speed Boots.