If I love DQ8 will I like DQ7?

#1MoonlitNocturnePosted 1/24/2014 8:08:16 PM
I'm New to DQ and I've only played VIII The two games are obviously very different in graphics but dose it still hold up to date? What's the difference besides the graphics and the exclusion of the Psych system?
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I've Been
#2behindthewordPosted 1/28/2014 12:00:02 AM
MoonlitNocturne posted...
I'm New to DQ and I've only played VIII The two games are obviously very different in graphics but dose it still hold up to date? What's the difference besides the graphics and the exclusion of the Psych system?


Hmm, there's a LOT to cover, and I'm feeling up to it.

Generally speaking, most Dragon Quests play about the same, though since DQVI there have been greater changes from one game to another.

I actually wrote a whole separate post, but it's a LONG read. So this is an attempt to condense it and make it easier to understand. So instead I'll just go line by line for the basic system and some aspects of VIII that are different in VII, including covering the Psyche system.

Graphics:
Dragon Quest VIII-
1) Full 3D, realistically proportioned character models in a 3D world.
2) Realistic world map that is large, expansive, and requires a lot of time to just walk through it, creating a certain sense of immersion in the world as a whole.
3) Battles allow you to see the characters act in battle.
4) Full 3D enemy models on the world map and in battle.
5) Different maps for the Ship and a totally separate one for the Godbird.
6) Dungeons let you see the walls and in many, the ceiling, are large and give a more proper sense of scale.

Dragon Quest VII-
1) 2D character models, in a psuedo chibi, short, and stout style (very traditional DQ) in a 3D world.
2) Top-Down, scaled down, Zoomed out world map (similar to the Ship's map).
3) Battles are done in 1st person perspective. Characters are not shown in battle, giving a different sense of immersion (you ARE the characters). Shows the attacks, but not the weapon or character making them. Camera movement is limited to high level area-of-effect spells and skills to show their size, scope, and power.
4) 2D enemy models in battle, and the scenarios where they show up in towns and dungeons (story battles), they are also in 2D.
5) Flying and Ship travel use the same world map as travel by foot, only when flying it zooms out a bit more.
6) Dungeons are done like towns and the world map, top down, and while the full sense of scale is smaller, the dungeons are still quite expansive and often show it.

General Gameplay and Battle:
Dragon Quest VIII-
1) Weapons are tied to characters. Weapons have very specific skills only usable with said weapons (or none if going fisticuffs). Character personality skill trees are independent of weapon choice.
1.1) Only two characters share one weapon type: Angelo and Hero share Sword.
2) Adds the Bow class weapons.
3) Once a passive bonus is learned from a weapon it remains in affect so long as the weapon type is equipped. Any passives that belong to the Character personality skill tree are always in affect, always.
4) No Class system, instead skill points are gained up on leveling up. Skill points are fixed, but can be added to by Skill Seeds. Each skill tree requires skill points, that max and unlock all skills and passives at 100 points each.
5) Only the Hero knows the Zap spell line (though one spell is learned via the Courage skill tree), there are only 2 spells in the Zap line, however Dragon Soul functions as a Zap property skill.
6) Tension system, also known as the Psyche system. Expanding the ability to boost damage in battle to multiple rounds and much higher increments of damage. Further expanded through the Timbrel of Tension, allowing for at least 2x boosts in a single round for the entire party.
6.1) Tension affects EVERYTHING, from Defense to Offense of all kinds, including spells and almost every single skill in the game.
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FAQ status - DW3 GBC (85%), DQ4 DS (2%), DQ5 DS (20%), DQ6 DS (95.5%), DQ7 3DS (5%), FF4 DS (40%)
#3behindthewordPosted 1/28/2014 12:01:14 AM
7) Revamped Drop system: Shout. Shouting allows for multiple items to be dropped in battle. Otherwise normal drops are at 1 per battle determined by the last enemy defeated.
8) Gimped...MAJORLY gimped stealing system. Only Scythes have stealing skills, limiting stealing to one character, and the first skill steals at 1/4 the drop rate, while the upgraded skill only steals at 1/2 the drop rate. No ability to auto-steal.
9) Limited but streamlined skill system, and very limited character development via gameplay.

Dragon Quest VII-
1) Weapon options are tied to characters, but many characters share various weapon types, and there is varied mix and match even between weapon types, where sometimes one specific weapon type may have an odd-man-out that is equipped only by people who don't typically equip it. So perhaps two characters equip all Swords but 3, which are equipped by two other characters, and are the only two swords one of those two other characters equips, while the other can gear up with two other swords.
2) Technically there is one Bow, but it has no special "bow" properties. So technically no official "bow class" weapons yet.
3) Passive bonuses are tied to classes. Like Hero class heals HP at the end of every round (stacks with armour that heals at the end of the round). Switch a class and the bonuses change. Higher level classes have special "mastery" bonuses where a specific stat is raised by a certain amount. Godhand increases Strength.
3.1) Due to the class system, there are Character basic stats and Class modifiers. Where a class will alter the basic stats either up or down (and for some classes, always up, while others really cripple a character). Note that all class "mastery" bonuses are tied to stats that class gives a positive boost to. So a + % modifier of some amount.
4) No skill points, rather, given a class system, each class has a separate "level" that is raised by gaining a certain amount of job points. Job points are gained by fighting, one per battle assuming at least one enemy is defeated by their HP reaching 0.
4.1) The class/job leveling system requires players to be within certain level ranges until the end-game (disc 2). Each area has a "level cap", where any level above the cap will net 0 job points upon winning a battle. Note that while this may seem unfair the level caps for the PSX version are quite high and would require EXCESSIVE grinding to exceed.
5) Only the Hero CLASS/JOB can learn the Zap spell line. So everyone can learn them by mastering the Hero class (note this will take awhile). Zap is thus learned later in DQVII than VIII (unless you want to grind a bit). There are also three Zap spells. Thordain is the highest level, is single strike, and technically, Dragon Soul is a revamped version of Thordain (but much stronger, and more cheap as Thordain requires the entire party takes up a round just casting Thordain and it takes MP from each member).
6) Tension/Psyche is an upgrade to the basic Muster Strength (also Focus Strength...two separate skills). Unlike Psyche, Muster only boosts for one round (if you don't use it the next round it's gone, have to recast), and ONLY boosts once at a rate of 2 - 2.25x. So 1x Psyche/Tension is less effective than 1x Muster Strength, but gets better each round Tension is increased.
6.1) Muster Strength ONLY affects Strength based skills, and even then roughly 50% of them. No defense increase.
7) No Shout system as a separate function. There is a way to get enemies to run away or be scared, and Shout is based on this skill. However it does not increase drop rates. At the end of battle, only 1 item can be dropped, and like VIII, it is determined by the last enemy killed.
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FAQ status - DW3 GBC (85%), DQ4 DS (2%), DQ5 DS (20%), DQ6 DS (95.5%), DQ7 3DS (5%), FF4 DS (40%)
#4behindthewordPosted 1/28/2014 12:02:18 AM
8) Stealing system in VII is the S***. I mean it is just bangin' sweet. First you have auto-steal, which sadly overwrites the drop, AND sadly it is only tied to very particular classes (THREE: Thief, Pirate, and the monster class Buudo). However auto-steal greatly increases the chance to gain an item and it ignores which enemy was killed last, so kill at your leisure. To further expand upon this, and to improve this greatly...there is the Thiefhit skill, which allows, at the same rate as an item would normally drop, to steal any item from any enemy. Thiefhit is pimp for three reasons. One, since it's a skill it can be used regardless of your class. Two, it has no impact on the drop/auto-steal at the end of battle as it allows independent stealing and thus allows multiple items to be had in a single battle. Finally, three, you can get an auto-steal or a drop from any enemy Thiefhit was used to steal an item from, so if you have 3 enemies on screen, Thiefhit successfully all three of them, any of the three can still drop their item a second time as the auto-steal or drop.

Odds/Ends:
Dragon Quest VIII-
1) Has an Arena system (revamped version of one that appears in VI).
2) Special monsters appear on the world map that can be fought - Notorious Monsters - that once beaten can be recruited for the Arena system, and a special sub-party system to use in battle.
3) Casino system, but only two, and the final one requires a sidequest to unlock.
4) Chests appear on the world map.
5) Alchemy system, done in a way to encourage world map exploration.
5.1) Alchemy system allows for upgrading existing equipment. Most of the highest and best weapons and armor are only available via Alchemy.
6) Divine Intervention is granted greater significance with a change to the Resistance tables that force 80% of all skills and spells to deal 80% damage (yes, 80% damage up front of what they should, one Divine Intervention).
7) Bonus boss has multiple fights, multiple forms, offers multiple special options. Completing the bonus dungeon offers a new ending: the GOOD ending.
8) Munchie! Also has story significance that cannot be unlocked until the post-game.
9) Mini Medal system.
10) Metal King Sword, Spear, and Boomerang all deal extra damage to Metal Monsters (+1)
11) Special party chat screen that has a lot more dialogue, and always has "where to go next" info.

Dragon Quest VII-
1) Has no Arena system, but instead offers two special systems: Monster Park, where you can collect monsters to put there for special conversation, more of a for-fun and completionist purpose. The second being the Township system, where you develop a town, and recruit immigrants, and after certain numbers of people the town changes.
1.1) Township also has "final forms" that are determined by the types of immigrants that are recruited (can be changed at any time once Final Form is available).
2) No monsters appear on the world map, no notorious monster system. No special monster party. HOWEVER you can recruit monsters for the monster park mentioned above, AND you can learn monster classes where upon maxing your characters take their forms.
3) Casino system! Three to boot, two of which are unlocked in the main game, the third requires one of the Township final forms. So both final casinos are unlocked via a "sidequest".
3.1) DQVII's casino has the Lucky Panel, a special game that allows winning anything from monster hearts (monster classes) to rare items, to decent and rare equipment.
4) No Chests on the world map.
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FAQ status - DW3 GBC (85%), DQ4 DS (2%), DQ5 DS (20%), DQ6 DS (95.5%), DQ7 3DS (5%), FF4 DS (40%)
#5behindthewordPosted 1/28/2014 12:03:08 AM
5) No Alchemy system, but there are special and novelty weapons with special attributes NOT found in DQVIII, such as "trailing damage".
6) Basic damage for everything is always 100%, and you can deal MORE than 100% with one skill that alters resistance tables for any attack with an "element" applied to it. I like this more, but DQVIII was likely changed to "balance" the Psyche system, which allows for some insane damage at 7.5x at max Tension.
7) There are TWO bonus dungeons. First bonus boss is harder than most of the Dragon forms but Darksteel in basic stats (DQVII is also cheaper in its list of attacks, and thus this statistical edge for DQVII's bonus bosses can be easily brushed aside with the right class picks). Only ONE form though for both bonus bosses, so technically VIII has more bonus bosses, however like VIII's battles, the first bonus boss in VII gives choices for presents upon defeating him, however it requires defeating him in a certain number of turns.
7.1) Due to the nature of the second bonus dungeon, expect a rougher climb to the bottom in VII than in VIII. It's also longer, but both bonus dungeons are story related like in VIII, however they're not as DIRECTLY related in VII, as in they don't directly impact the ending of the game in VII, unlike VIII.
8) Sadly, no Munchie or the like (however you CAN learn skills that offer breath attacks, and the same breath attacks that Munchie uses, with roughly the same damage, but the high level breath attacks are only learned via high-level monster classes).
9) Mini Medal System...both offer truly awesome stuff, though since VIII puts a priority on the Alchemy system, there are slightly fewer direct equipment gifts.
10) VII has no Metal King Spear or Boomerang, but it does have the Sword (a Metal "something" Sword has been in every DQ since IV), HOWEVER, VII offers no bonus to the Metal King Sword: there are better methods for slaughtering metals in VII, and frankly it's a lot easier to kill Metal monsters in VII overall.
11) Special party chat, but does NOT have its own screen, and the party chat is limited to responses only when events have just taken place (leave town and usually whatever party chat you could have read is now gone permanently). Also offers party chat after talking to most NPC's at least once (repeated chats with all but current story NPC's of importance will offer NO extra party chat and you'll just get the usual "...").
11.1) I forget if VIII has it, but VII has party chat in battle, and they're often HILARIOUS. Comments on enemies, and sometimes you get useful info on what skills or spells to possibly use.


You know there's more but that should cover the most important differences.

Overall I'd say: yes, you'll like it. I love VII and I love VIII (personally prefer VII to VIII anyday).

I will say that while characters in this game are stubby little runts in their design, it's VERY charming and once you walk past any initial issues with the psuedo-chibiness, it grows on you.

The world map will feel very different, and you may miss the special functions such as the Monster Party option, and if you ever use it, the Shout option, but it's not that huge. The skill system in VII can be overwhelming at times, but just picking a specific class path, not worrying much about grinding, and keeping them somewhat balanced (as long as someone has magic, and one goes pure physical you'll be good), you'll be aok.
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FAQ status - DW3 GBC (85%), DQ4 DS (2%), DQ5 DS (20%), DQ6 DS (95.5%), DQ7 3DS (5%), FF4 DS (40%)
#6behindthewordPosted 1/28/2014 12:04:23 AM
The stories play out somewhat differently. With VII being less obvious as to the overarching storyline until much later, but it's a far deeper and MUCH larger in scope than VIII's basic Dhoulmagus...oh wtf, the staff is independent....oh it was all an oversized superfat firefly wannabe! Granted there's slightly less character development, but it's there if you remember to talk to your party members (use the Talk/Accept button when not facing an NPC/pot/drawer/etc.). Each area you come to is a small substory, but overall you'll see how they all interconnect. All is revealed at some point, and while long, it's so worth the efforts in my opinion.

Cheers, and I hope this helps give an idea of what to expect!
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FAQ status - DW3 GBC (85%), DQ4 DS (2%), DQ5 DS (20%), DQ6 DS (95.5%), DQ7 3DS (5%), FF4 DS (40%)
#7VeghEstherPosted 1/29/2014 10:00:59 AM
For me nothing is really worth stealing and at levels over 40 (since I mastered) all jobs but thief last had Thief hit kill its targets easily with 1 hit while having the steal efffect fail 100% of the time.
#8StarryKnightsPosted 1/31/2014 4:02:54 PM(edited)
My opinion on both games:

7:

Note: I've only played the original.

+ Epic, with a plot sprawling over a massive world; lots of people to talk with
+ Lots to do beyond "Kill final boss"
+ Several neat plot twists
+ Better class system than in VI, with more useful classes
+ The few areas that have a persistent purpose in the game add greatly to the experience
+ Town system is, conceptually, quite exciting and offers many ways to shape it
+ Large amount of post-game content

- Much of the backstory is never explained and the biggest question of "How, exactly, did the world end up the way it did" is never touched upon
- Areas in the past are mostly isolated and don't seem to be aware of anything beyond their own personal problems
- There's no real plot reason for the characters to do what they do until about 3/4ths through the game
- Infinite class sprawl is back from VI, and so is the lack of information over what skills are learned when by what
- The level limiting system for gaining class experience is, like in VI, hidden
- Level grinding doesn't exist...but class grinding does
- Gameplay involves a lot of bland fights over the course of a 120 hour journey
- Has a ridiculous number of instances where you need to talk to arbitrary, random, plot-unimportant NPCs to advance the story
- Town building sidequest involves many, many random occurrences and represents a gigantic timesink if you want to "grind" a certain final town form

8:

+ Massive, well tied-together world; scripts for random NPCs are updated multiple times, even in areas you're unlikely to return to
+ Best plot in the entire series, with good flow, memorable events, interesting NPCs, and meaningful twists and turns
+ Skill system is a good compromise between "Static ability gains" and "Infinite class sprawl", with a good level of customization
+ Graphics allow immersive expressions, actions
+ Voice acting is top notch and adds tremendously to the experience
+ Characters are easier to emphasize with and are developed better than in prior entries
+ Extremely content dense; there's almost always something to do besides murder monsters
+ Grinding is reigned in tremendously from VI and VII
+ The Alchemy Pot is a great idea
+ The monster arena sidequest is a fun, long running diversion

- Extremely content dense; it's quite easy to drown in all the extra stuff you can do and not all of it is useful
- The Alchemy Pot is a giant cesspool of experimentation that rarely coughs up something useful, and encourages running around in circles
- The excellent soundtrack gets very, very old after 80 hours
- Post-game content throws balance out the window and doubles down on 'old skool' super hard boss fights
- A few scenes are marred by the maddening inability to the hero to react to anything that doesn't involve a Yes/No prompt
- The way day-night transitions occur in cities are aggravating and immersion breaking
- Without a FAQ, you won't know when or what a certain skill tree unlocks
- There is one point where the game pats you on the back and says "Good luck finding the main plot"
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"If you're going to be a mod, you should work harder to get rid of your humanity. It's creepy." ~ Monker to The Paragon
#9chandl34Posted 2/8/2014 6:49:16 PM(edited)
These are some massive write-ups. Also, glad to see Vegh in here.

DQ7 is my highest rated DQ game; 8 one of my lowest.
- It is the most epic game in the series.
- The town plot-lines are much more creative and interesting.
- It has some of the best/funniest dialog I've seen in the series.
- The class system is the most in depth for the series, allowing incredibly varied ways to play.
#10StarryKnightsPosted 2/9/2014 11:49:27 PM
I'm of a differing opinion. I consider VIII to be the strongest in the series, VII about in the middle.
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"If you're going to be a mod, you should work harder to get rid of your humanity. It's creepy." ~ Monker to The Paragon