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Rating FFIX (SPOILERS NATURALLY AHOY)

#31manmousePosted 7/13/2013 10:23:23 AM
DeusMortem posted...
Lol, this crap beating VII, IV and V? Uh ...


perhaps some reasoning for your opinion like everyone else is providing?

otherwise you just sound like an ass.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b18HMqJW5A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt1-XWiMveY
#32DeusMortemPosted 7/13/2013 12:27:01 PM
It's way too silly (feels more like a Disney movie than an FF game), has worthless character development and even more worthless characters at that, worse animations than FFVII and FFVIII despite coming out years later, and no challenge whatsoever (except for Ozma). Also hade lame damage cap of 9999 which, if I recall correctly, made the more costly -- supposed-to-be-best -- summons completely useless and a lot of special moves just cosmetically different.

It's the worst (numbered) game in the series if you discount the abominations coming out after, such as FFX-2 and FFXIII. The only thing about it was like ... Alexander.
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I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space -- were it not that I have bad dreams ...
#33doubtkiller25Posted 7/14/2013 12:16:53 AM
DeusMortem posted...
It's way too silly (feels more like a Disney movie than an FF game), has worthless character development and even more worthless characters at that, worse animations than FFVII and FFVIII despite coming out years later, and no challenge whatsoever (except for Ozma). Also hade lame damage cap of 9999 which, if I recall correctly, made the more costly -- supposed-to-be-best -- summons completely useless and a lot of special moves just cosmetically different.

It's the worst (numbered) game in the series if you discount the abominations coming out after, such as FFX-2 and FFXIII. The only thing about it was like ... Alexander.


Because Cloud dressing up like a girl was the epitome of "srs bisness", right? And V *definitely* never got silly! I see exactly what you mean!

And worthless character development! Of course! I mean how can this game compare to an all-star cast of racist caricatures, cranky cussing grandpas, and a ninja that gets a single optional town for her character arc? It's simply impossible to hold up to VII.

Animation obviously sucks, I mean just compare:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RINP5ULWde0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsYpasHUVc8

They speak for themselves :P

And don't even get started on the challenge! God, I remember how impossible VII was! This was a series that was built on challenge until IX came along. How pathetic.

And a stupid-ass 9999 damage cap? wtf?!?! Sure every single game before this had the same damage cap, but just wtf? Ark isn't KOTR, so obviously it sucks. Why couldn't every endgame attack hit 60 times? This game is so stupid.

Am I making fun of you? Yes. Are all your complaints things that could be said for most of the series, including the games you condescendingly compared this one to? Yes. Was your complaint a poorly articulated shot at IX? For the most part. Glad you enjoyed VII, IV, and V though!
#34DeusMortemPosted 7/14/2013 1:36:08 AM
Well, your attempt at making fun of me fails miserably. Just because game X is bad and game Y is good it doesn't mean they don't share weaknesses or strengths.

In the end it boils down to personal preference though. I can't state that IX is objectively bad because that would suggest there are fixed premises for what should make us appreciate a game. IX is simply ****ing worthless crap in my eyes -- obviously not in yours.
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I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space -- were it not that I have bad dreams ...
#35manmousePosted 7/14/2013 1:56:33 AM
1.) it being silly. every FF has silly characters. FF5's plot is humor driven, as most of the depth is in gameplay while the plot and presentation are very traditional and simple and outright wacky, i mean Faris talks like a disney pirate saying "Yarr maties! thar be land!" and Galuf is a goofy semi-perverted eccentric old man. FF6 has a woolsey localization for one, which is enough to make it completely kooky in the interactions with characters like Cyan Sabin and Gau, as well as Strago and Relm, and Mog and Umaru. FF7 is off the wall at times, with Wall Market, Yuffie, Barret, Cait Sith, etc. and FF8's presentation takes more cues from late 90's MTV than actual scifi or fantasy. anyway with 9's cast, the amount of tragedy that the game puts them through makes them actually a more depressing bunch than most FFs. especially Vivi, Freya, and Dagger.

2.) character development. objectively speaking, i think it's safe to say that the only FF that can compete and beat 9 in character development is FFTactics. with Dagger, Zidane, Vivi, Steiner, and Eiko (who's entire script often gets dismissed for her character being female and young), and even Kuja (as you see his development and reactions to certain realizations as the plot moves), their dialogue, monologues, and overall planned arcs easily top those in 1-8 and 10-13.

3.) animations. this is actually the most objectively wrong thing you said. the previous poster got it wrong though when posting an FMV, as i'm sure you were talking about the character models in game. but they factually have more moving parts and more intricate design and movement than any FF before. this is a fact, i don't know where you're coming from with this. even the "realistic" FF8 has characters whose arms are stiff, whose hands float above things they touch (Squall when pulling a door or lever and drawing his sword), whose faces and hair lack detail, and bodies that rotate through a lot of stock positions. FF9 actually employed the most moveable, flexible, versatile, and detailed character models ever before at that point in time.

4.) challenge. FF is historically an easy series. FF5, which was reportedly too hard for American audiences, is easier than literally ever NES RPG i can think of. FF4 was meant to have a decent challenge, but the USA version we originally got on SNES was treated to a heavy reprogramming to make it much easier. FF6 is also easy for anyone whose ever played an RPG. FF7 is beyond easy, with only 2 slightly difficult mandatory bosses (Rapps and Carry Armor) and even then they're extremely easy. FF8 can be bent to your will and made easier than any RPG in existence if you simply dedicate 5-10 minutes to drawing spells maybe 4 or 5 times in the game (that's less time than you would even spend grinding in any RPG). and FF10 is also just as easy as anything before it, with an easily passable damage limit. and then once you get keys to get characters on eachother's sphere grids you essentially have gods. the only hard FF's are the NES titles, and even then they're easier than their contemporaries on NES. FFTactics would be hard if they didn't hand you Orlandu, but it's at least harder than the PS games. FF is not a hard series though. if you want challenge and frown upon easy games, give up on FF.

5.) useless summons. welcome to the FF series. summons are hardly integral in any PS FF. they're kinda useful in the SNES era games (i still never used them in those though), but for the most part, they evolved into opportunities to show off graphics starting with 7. plus, Eiko's summons are actually pretty useful since many of them have effects other than damage.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b18HMqJW5A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt1-XWiMveY
#36doubtkiller25Posted 7/14/2013 5:34:42 AM
^this guy gets it, although I'd like to elaborate on his point about the detailed character models in IX. All you have to do is look at the opening scene:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG66_fziCGc

@2:25 we see the first rendered character model in the game (that isnt CGI, obviously). Tail moves back and forth organically. His upper body moves left and right while feet stay rooted. He strikes a match and there is almost no mistaking that that is what he did because his entire body went into the animation. His weight clearly shifts to the right and then slightly to the left, he reaches into his pocket, his other hand clearly strikes the match, and even his head moves with the match-striking motion. This is the first five or ten seconds you see a character model in this game and its already done buttloads more than what squall and his blocky arms could ever do, not even mentioning polygon cloud.

jump ahead to @5:49, and we see just how much the character models can do. Zidane sits backwards in a chair: that right there is something no final fantasy had the technology to do before it. Freaking think about that: poor stick legs Barret is never sitting like that no matter how much his marshmallow body wishes he could. We see Cinna lay across the chest in the back, blank leans against the wall and crosses his arms, Marcus is leaning way forward: all of those are also details the models in VII and VIII only dreamed of.

@6:03, more tiny details emerge, and they just get better and better. You can see Marcus gently tapping his foot, and you can clearly make out the position of both his arms, which is awesome: he's leaning his right elbow on his knee and bracing his left arm on his other knee. Dang. Just a few seconds later Marcus stands up and says "the REAL actors will be Blank and Zidane" and right there, Blank brushes his hand through his hair like a sly bastard. Did Rufus and Sephiroth both do that in VII? Sure, but it definitely didn't look as good.

The best thing about all these small details is that they all add to the characters and their personalities. Zidane is the most wily, and he sits appropriately. Marcus is the most stable and dependable in the group, always rocking along and taking life a beat at a time. Cinna's a lazy bastard. And Blank is cool af. This is the first five minutes of gameplay and we have a framework for this entire gang of thieves solely because of the tiny details of their character models, none of which was possible to such a degree of detail in the two games preceding it. I'd say VIII is even worse than VII in this regard, but that's beside the point. Point is if you really wanna argue that IX is graphically inferior to its predecessors, you better bring some excellent examples to the table because you're gonna have a tough time convincing anyone who knows anything about FF VII, VIII and IX.
#37random_singer(Topic Creator)Posted 7/15/2013 3:03:43 AM
webbc99 posted...

There are aspects of FF9 (story and soundtrack in particular) that I really enjoy, but I think there are too many parts of it as an overall experience that let it down for me, but I seem to be a bit of an outsider in this opinion!


Haha, well you are on the FF9 boards :D. What did you expect!


Lol, this crap beating VII, IV and V? Uh ...


Yup. Thats how I feel. Feel free to argue my points if you wish, I quite enjoy it. And I'm studying to become a lawyer, so its good practice :D

Honestly, IV was a big disappointment to me. On the plus side, it had some of the most interesting bosses that I have struck in FF games. However, the battle system was far far far too rigid for my liking. Having unique character abilities is great, but only unlocking magic by levelling up and not being able to pick your own party (I liked Palom and Porom, not you Edge!) were very very bad. And it comes between two games which are pretty awesome in gameplay in III and V, so I kinda don't rate it as much as many others. The story many people like, but today it reads as if the development team were twice told to make it arbitrarily longer (No problem, lets introduce a whole new set of crystals... UNDERGROUND! And then... LETS GO TO THE MOON! Crazy stuff that was not needed.)

V, on the other hand had brilliant gameplay, but its story sucked. IX therefore wins for being the more complete package, but only just. I did really enjoy V (come on, my sig is from V), but IX edges it. Barely.

VII had a great story and plotline. But, its materia system is disappointing. All characters were effectively the same, and remained the same throughout the course of the game. It thus didn't seem like a proper RPG to me; I felt more connection with the materia than the characters. Its different from other blank slate games, because at any stage during VII, you could remove a characters materia and give it to another, and they would in effect be a carbon copy of the other character immediately. Compare this to III and V, where this is possible, but only if you invest a lot of time. In an RPG, the choices you make should ultimately mean something in how the character develops. This does not happen in VII, so I rank VII lower because of that.
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Yes, the twelve legendary weapons. They are weapons. They are legendary. There are even twelve of them.
#38random_singer(Topic Creator)Posted 7/15/2013 3:20:12 AM
DeusMortem posted...
It's way too silly (feels more like a Disney movie than an FF game), has worthless character development and even more worthless characters at that, worse animations than FFVII and FFVIII despite coming out years later, and no challenge whatsoever (except for Ozma). Also hade lame damage cap of 9999 which, if I recall correctly, made the more costly -- supposed-to-be-best -- summons completely useless and a lot of special moves just cosmetically different.


I quite enjoy lame damage caps of 9999; doing over 9999 damage for me the vast majority of the time is simply being overpowered. And being overpowered means there are little tactics, and hence little fun. At the risk of attracting Vegh (though we all love him secretly) things like KOTR and Omnislash are really just rewards for doing sidequests; and should not be relied on if you actually want to enjoy the game.

Yeah, VII was far easier than IX. Died twice in IX in my first playthrough, waltzed through VII without a death. Enemies weren't even firing death spells at me in VII until the final dungeon, they are par for the course in most other FF games. It is on the easy side for FF games, but its nowhere near as bad in this regard as some.

Summons I actually found were more useful in this game, for the sheer fact that they didn't take FOREVER to do. Hence I was using them far more in random battles than in games like VII (where they were only used on high HP bosses) And I'm struggling to see what special moves are just cosmetically different- you cannot expect the average gamer to have maxed out Frog Drop, Thievery, and Freyas dragon based move (which I am struggling to remember the name of). Stiener's shock does regularly hit the 9999 barrier, yes, but what else?
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Yes, the twelve legendary weapons. They are weapons. They are legendary. There are even twelve of them.
#39KuroAlchemistPosted 7/15/2013 5:18:24 AM
random_singer posted...
you cannot expect the average gamer to have maxed out Frog Drop, Thievery, and Freyas dragon based move (which I am struggling to remember the name of). Stiener's shock does regularly hit the 9999 barrier, yes, but what else?


As much as I love the game and find its the best in the series... the game has many flaws.
For example, the stats growth is too slow and the mechanics behind it never explained.
And... as much as agreeing with someone who bash the game hurt.... the 9999 damage cap is dumb.
Pretty much everyone can reach 9999 unless you really don't know what you are doing.
I'm not talking about the previous mentionned ability (the only one I use between those is Dragon's Crest, unless playing challenge cuz Zidane and Steiner are broken enough and Frog Drop is a pain to boost).
Throw can reach 9999 easily, same goes for No Mercy if used with the Kaiser Knuckles against a Wind-weak target.

Amarant and Steiner can reach 9999 with good elemental weapon + MP attack + Killer if their level is above 40. Zidane can reach 9999 with physical (yet again with Killer + MP Attack) at higher level thanks to his Ultima having such a high attack value.

Quad-reflected spell can also reach 9999 easily (easiest way to reach 9999 IMO as it don't require any special equipment and it achieves 9999 pretty fast (Water spell)).

I won't even talk about summons and Zidane's trance.

If it weren't for the cap, using Mini on target and Might/Berserk on your physical attacker would actually be useful... The cap make for less strategic battle cuz it makes some options worthless endgame (but please try Berserk + Counter, it's still so much fun ;) )
They could have put a passive costing 2-3 stone which raises the cap from 9999 to 30000 (adding hp to endgame bosses and monster).
#40doubtkiller25Posted 7/15/2013 10:42:04 AM(edited)
I still don't understand the complaint about the 9999 damage cap, especially because this is one of the few games in the series where that cap serves to effectively balance your damage output and keep you from being too OP. There aren't many multi-hit moves in the game, and starting at around disk 3 the bosses start getting enough health to take two or three 9999 hits at least. I mean, what exactly would've been better than having this cap? 6- or 7-hit moves? "break damage limit" abilities and the like? With those options, the game would be totally unbalanced, and it's already easy enough to spam those 9999 moves as it is. It's not enough that you can input 4 of those commands and instantly slaughter almost anything in the game for you? The casual player probably wouldn't ever even see that much damage from one of their attacks, it really isnt like the game hands them to you. Dragon's Crest and Shock make you work for them (the weapons that teach em are obtained from sidequests), as is Ultima Weapon. Most other characters won't hit the damage cap unless they grind up to ridiculous levels, except for Vivi with his reflect.

So is the complaint that the damage cap makes your party too weak? Well that's dumb, there're only a few challenging bosses in this game to begin with, and hitting the damage cap doesn't make them particularly easier or harder. If you wanted stronger moves that hit more or broke the cap, the only way to really keep the game balanced (outside of making those moves ridiculously hard to pull off) would be to make the boss's HP go up proportionally. Ozma wouldn't be any harder with 600000 HP than he would be in his current form. Scaling the HP to match those ridiculously over-the-top moves would only make this game less balanced than it already is, and that's silly.

Or is the complaint the opposite? Is the frustration that the damage cap is too easily obtained? Because as I kinda mentioned before, nobody just hits the damage cap as you naturally play the game. You level grind, chocograph grind, grind to learn auto-reflect on everybody, or grind thievery/frog drop. None of those are appealing options to casuals. None of those make the game much easier than it already is because if you're going out of your way to do that, you're probably already OP.

I dunno, I just don't get it. Explain?