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Zidane is the best role model out of any Final Fantasy protagonist

#1Dvs161Posted 9/19/2013 7:53:22 PM
The reason I think he was is because he had a more optimistic and extroverted attitude. Acting like Cloud in real life will make people laugh at you, but Zidane did well for me personally in teaching me how to open up and make friends. Zidane was an alpha too, and isn't afraid of girls like I used to be.

Played this game when I was 10, which was a very impressionable age for me. Just my 2 cents.
#2random_singerPosted 9/19/2013 8:44:16 PM
What FF protagonists teach us:

Fireon: Hitting yourself with a sword makes you stronger.

Cecil: Sometimes in life, you think you are an awesome dark knight. Then stuff happens, and people see you for the white haired crappy Paladin that you really are.

Bartz: No matter how strong you are, people will still laugh at your name.

Terra: When things turn bad, refuse to join the party. People respect stay at home faux mums much more than kickass esper protagonists anyway.

Cloud: Cross-dressing works.

Zidane: When in doubt, hit on a women. When certain, hit on a woman anyway.
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Yes, the twelve legendary weapons. They are weapons. They are legendary. There are even twelve of them.
#3MysterPixelPosted 9/19/2013 9:54:05 PM
Dvs161 posted...
Zidane was an alpha too, and isn't afraid of girls like I used to be.


Please don't act like Zidane does in regards to romantic interests.
(Also does anyone else cringe when the terms 'alpha' and 'beta' are used in this respect?)
#4PalaguinPosted 9/19/2013 10:22:31 PM
Ironic that the best role-model protagonists in Final Fantasy tend to be thieves (Locke, Zidane, Vaan)
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Intensity, Integrity, Intelligence, Personified.
#5Vir27Posted 9/19/2013 11:37:37 PM
Well, these reasons I don't like Zidane--as much as I like the game and the other characters--are no secret. They haven't ever kept me from enjoying the game, but Zidane is about the only sort of fellow I can't respect. Optimism, confidence, and more I'll happily credit him: model that all you like, please and thank you. However, he also displays another combination of traits which torments my brain whenever I observe it. He attacks other people for doing what they think is right, but he doesn't bother himself for doing what he thinks is wrong. Zidane doesn't need a reason to help people: alright, I could respect that. But he doesn't need a reason to rob them (anyone?), grope them (Garnet), insult them (Steiner and assorted foes), write them off (Steiner), kidnap them (Garnet), abuse their good will (team at D3 Alexandria, Cid), frame them for his own misdeeds (Amarant), betray (team in Pandemona) and/or abandon them (Tantalus), either. That's not a forgivable rogue to me, it's a dangerous fool.

Someone discards his own standards and my estimation of them falls through the floor: let him on with his own business and wish him the best of luck, but there's nothing to do with him and little to help people who get encouraged by his good pretense and then complain of being burned by his bad deeds. If you have no choice but to deal with him, it's not a relationship, it's pure operant conditioning: reinforcement/punishment until he either learns boundaries, learns to be cognizant their own motivations, or parts way. Now, no person has all virtues, nor no failings, so in my experience it's more productive, less stressful, and less likely to sully you with contempt (almost never useful), to estimate what you can trust a person with on an individual basis and move from there. But if you can trust a person to do ill to a situation as merrily as to do good, don't trust him to do good. In my opinion, if you trust Zidane after observing him significantly and he does you wrong, it's his responsibility he did wrong and your responsibility he did it to you. I respect people more who mind their own responsibility first.

But what's worse about Zidane is he talks a big game. He judges and even attacks other characters for behaving according to what they think is right because it's not what he thinks is right, but he never seems to judge himself for doing things that he would (apparently) say are wrong and has no shame admitting that he takes serious action on motivations that don't make sense to him. If he can kidnap Garnet for no other reason than his boss told him to, I have no sympathy for his sake she's kidnapped back. He has the same amount of legal standing and honor as have Zorn and Thorn and he lacks their personal (evil) integrity. To me, it's not even pitiful: it's just irritating.

I'd sooner deal with Zorn and Thorn. I have no problem dealing with people who are even straight antagonistic to how I think people should be treated. Frankly, I've observed there's a considerable market for mistreatment even among people who despise "***holes." Let 'em have it; they and I don't compete. We're working in different markets. They're no particular threat to my reliance on trust; I'm confident to handle myself whether beside or against them.

But someone acts like me, talks like me, makes like you can trust them, then burns you for trusting them? That undermines me. That counterexample makes me less trustworthy to people who might deal with us both. A false gentleman like Zidane is like someone who convinces people the fire department is incompetent so trust him instead, then runs away when from half the fires. Better a moron who dies in the blaze or an unpretentious arsonist.

Obviously no one is asking me, but on TC's standards, I'd promote Tidus for optimism and confidence. He has great emotional fortitude and is only an obnoxious loudmouth a minority of the time: as good as most people, maybe better for all the hardship he can endure. Myself, I'd model Ramza's integrity and courage.
#6Vir27Posted 9/19/2013 11:46:26 PM
On the other hand, Zidane probably has a reasonably effective defense in his youth. Not knowing what sort of fellow you want to be is hardly daming at 16 or whatever he is. Still irritating on general principle, though ;)

MysterPixel posted...
Dvs161 posted...
Zidane was an alpha too, and isn't afraid of girls like I used to be.


Please don't act like Zidane does in regards to romantic interests.


Right? Confidence and conduct overlap in romance but are not interchangeable. Naturally, respect for Zidane in the regard of confidence should not lead to assuming ill of anyone's conduct, so please don't feel you need to defend yourself like we're accusing you of anything knavish, TC.

(Also does anyone else cringe when the terms 'alpha' and 'beta' are used in this respect?)


I neither cringe nor use the term, but I've known people a few times to argue which of them was the ***** [expunged for your cringing]. Perhaps I misunderstand, but to my intuition, if you have to persuade someone you're the *****, then you won't.
#7unwashed_massesPosted 9/20/2013 6:48:32 AM(edited)
This game has a pretty casual sense of morality. The sense of right and wrong are used for comedic effect between Steiner and the other thieves at various points in the game. I wouldn't say Zidane is technically a good role model, and the game never has Zidane face the bad things he's done, it's always just kind of taken in stride and forgotten.

I can totally see how that might bother someone. Zidane is supposed to be a thief with a heart of gold. The game could have explored his faults and had him face them, but it didn't happen. It's more or less written of as 'no real harm done!'

The only time this bothers me is with the kidnapping at the start, and the groping. That actually really bothers me as a feminist. But I do think some of the actions he took (such as 'abandonment') are a bit over-stated for the sake of painting Zidane in a certain light that was not exactly intended by the writers. He was trying to save someone's life, which is a perfectly understandable choice even if it wasn't the 'right' one to make - the morality in this case is more ambiguous.
#8Moomba33Posted 9/20/2013 7:01:06 AM
Zidane is my least favourite playable character in IX, and one of my least favourite FF protagonists.
I dislike overly flirtatious characters in general, and the part where he gropes Garnet really bothers me.
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"Oh, I never leave home without my party cannon!" -Pinkie Pie
#9Vir27Posted 9/20/2013 9:04:44 AM
unwashed_masses posted...
But I do think some of the actions he took (such as 'abandonment') are a bit over-stated for the sake of painting Zidane in a certain light that was not exactly intended by the writers. He was trying to save someone's life, which is a perfectly understandable choice even if it wasn't the 'right' one to make - the morality in this case is more ambiguous.


I agree with that. If we're talking about the Evil Forest time and not as a pattern with the other time he left them and not that he didn't go back in any hurry or act to them like he wasn't prodigal, then your case is stronger than you say. He even provides his reasoning on that one that she's cute AND she's in trouble, which puts it right out of my 'he'll follow any caprice indiscriminately' peeve. It all forms part of the theme to me. You know I didn't even notice it about Zidane until I started to notice that Amarant had a consistent analysis going there; I was like, "My gosh, this Amarant may be a bit tunnel vision not to have observed whimsical people in the world before, but he makes a fair point that I never realized I totally agree with! ~gasp~ Zidane is a dangerous simpleton!" And the next time I played Zidane was a scoundrel right before my eyes.

But no, going after the princess was as legitimate as the other choices there present and, over all, it's fair that I got carried away to include it. I put those (citations) in after, where I'd originally been thinking of betrayal and/or abandonment as a single item in the list to describe buggering off on Terra/Pandemona however you wanted to take it. So yea, I retract that about abandoning Tantalus as being a naughty caprice.

My case is there, but I don't actually imagine it should be as convincing to other people. Rather I tried to make it strongly not to convince other people (it's really no matter to me if anyone else likes Zidane; it'd be pretty weird to imagine him unpopular) so much as to not appear crazy/trollish for disliking Zidane on this board. If the particular style of inconsistency doesn't yield flashing "Does not compute!" frustration errors in your brain every time you see something like I describe, then feel free to interpret his actions in a non-serious storytelling light or something, sure. (Although people who want to maintain that FF9 is the darkest FF... they are probably fair sport for having to hear my argument.) I know it bothers me more than it bothers plenty of reasonable people from other cases of the description which I could name, but still, for my part I'd rather deal with Zorn and Thorn or Barret, who is guilty of worse but who confronts what he's done and is my favorite FF character (more reasons than that).
#10Question_mark14Posted 9/21/2013 1:46:39 PM
unwashed_masses posted...
This game has a pretty casual sense of morality. The sense of right and wrong are used for comedic effect between Steiner and the other thieves at various points in the game. I wouldn't say Zidane is technically a good role model, and the game never has Zidane face the bad things he's done, it's always just kind of taken in stride and forgotten.

I can totally see how that might bother someone. Zidane is supposed to be a thief with a heart of gold. The game could have explored his faults and had him face them, but it didn't happen. It's more or less written of as 'no real harm done!'

The only time this bothers me is with the kidnapping at the start, and the groping. That actually really bothers me as a feminist. But I do think some of the actions he took (such as 'abandonment') are a bit over-stated for the sake of painting Zidane in a certain light that was not exactly intended by the writers. He was trying to save someone's life, which is a perfectly understandable choice even if it wasn't the 'right' one to make - the morality in this case is more ambiguous.


Its been awhile, when does he grope her? Are you talking about when they climb up the air ship? That looked accidental to me since he was looking the other way and she suddenly.

Also, why does it bother you as a "Feminist"? Would it be better if he kidnapped a prince and grouped him against his will?