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Amarant discussion topic

#11Moeman_Posted 11/30/2013 5:46:52 AM(edited)
http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130321015560/finalfantasy/images/7/75/Amarant_Trance_FFIX_Art.jpg This is his concept art, shows him with an off-white thong. (And a sizable bulge!)

http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130628213956/finalfantasy/images/7/76/Amarant-ffix-trance.png And his battle model just... has this purple void.

EDIT - http://i.imgur.com/wI6FxIX.png Some pics of in-battle Trance model taken from this video. http://youtu.be/_vXxOC3zTbQ There's white lines on his butt, but it looks like it's supposed to be a continuation of the runes on his legs. It can't be the thong depicted in the concept art, since the lines are on his buttocks and not on his waist.

Wonder how one would go about ripping his Trance model out of the game so we could have more conclusive proof.

Anyway, it creeped me out as a kid, but as an adult, I'm all the happier for some male fanservice. Thanks, Square! Say, does this make Amarant the first FF man whose naked butt we've seen?
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"Be confident, think positive!"
#12terran3999999Posted 11/30/2013 7:54:34 AM
Seriously, no love for Kuja? You see Kuja's butt long before Amarant's.
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Katawa Shoujo: The visual novel that defies and kicks logic to the curb.
Official contender to fight for Lilly as waifu.
#13Moeman_Posted 11/30/2013 10:01:09 AM
When do you see Kuja's butt?
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"Be confident, think positive!"
#14terran3999999Posted 11/30/2013 10:19:48 AM
....

Did you not see that whole deal with the man thong? Kuja more than eagerly flashes his questionable choice of clothes at the end of Disc 1 and in all of the other FMV.
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Katawa Shoujo: The visual novel that defies and kicks logic to the curb.
Official contender to fight for Lilly as waifu.
#15Moeman_Posted 11/30/2013 11:03:15 AM
It's been years since I've seen that FMV. I just checked it now, and that looks more like his hips.
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"Be confident, think positive!"
#16Vir27Posted 11/30/2013 11:14:31 AM(edited)
Welp, here's my copypasta.

I think the game presents a deeper Amarant than is commonly noted. [Accidentally left in info. from original topic. Must remember to delete that.] Aside from my having spotted (and not to say exclusively spotted) this line of thought, I don't happen to like Amarant more or less than I like the average FF character, I think.

Amarant starts out very pragmatic and rationalistic. He (1) views the world as working along certain intelligible premises. He (2) behaves as he sees is reasonable within these premises. He (3) expects other people to do the same. Finally and as a beginning, he (4) expects predictable, intelligible consequences for acting or not acting along rational lines.

For example, he reckons it is irrational and inefficient for an independent, able-bodied warrior to tie himself strategically to people who are not themselves independent and able-bodied if that warrior intends to survive adventures, take on powerful foes, become more powerful, so on (that's ^1). He will cooperate with Lani, say, whom he can see working efficiently as such, but he will not cooperate or even need to tolerate his allies being otherwise irrational: taking hostages and what (that's ^2 and 3), or, for later allies, risking their lives on poorly designed aircraft or badgering him with childish misunderstandings and presuppositions. When Zidane's capricious and, in Amarant's early view, inefficient inputs lead to even one instance of superior output, Amarant (^4) can't understand it and is thrust into conflict.

There's the thing. Amarant has to be able to understand: he has to be able to understand and certify his own behavior as rational, and he assumes that other people also behave as they see rational. Some folks write him off as only a brooding, callous thug. I submit he is easily one of the most critical and thoughtful members of the cast; a foil parallel to Vivi and Garnet for Zidane, Steiner, Quina who don't or sometimes stop engaging problems intellectually; and he's admirable to me in at least one way. That is, while Amarant won't hesitate to engage an external conflict physically, when he sees a contradiction in his own thinking, even if it infuriates or shames him, he will not disengage it intellectually or stop asking why until he has corrected whatever fault he finds with himself. Though harsh, his commitment to integrity is strong.

So when we meet him, Amarant knows that Zidane frames strangers for his own thefts, goes about with star-crossed princesses and children, fights active hostiles--and spares the same. He expresses how little reasoning he sees in this a number of times after agreeing to assist Zidane for the chance to observe and understand it, and the mystery deepens as Zidane does more seemingly-irrational things, like carrying less independent allies up huge trees instead of preserving his strength and taking care of his enemy on his own, but also taking a team 3/4s up a transforming, besieged castle only to dismiss them because he insists on saving the princess by himself. Amarant's analysis finds no logic and begins to suspect a test would show his own initial ideas sound.

At Ipsen's, it appears Amarant will be content if he has a sound philosophy, where at Madain Sari he seemed to think things more black and white. As he is leaving the mirror room in triumph, he knows that he still doesn't understand Zidane, but he thinks he doesn't have to because he has justified his own way of thinking. He can approve of himself on his own standards and that's what he needs. Shortly, though he is struck by the benefit of having friends most bluntly; he shuts up a bit while redoubling his assessment of how Zidane thinks and of what he should expect from himself.
#17Vir27Posted 11/30/2013 11:13:08 AM
Demonstrably, Amarant does take the time to sit and think. He shows us some of his conclusions developing at the Fire Shrine. Consider that the Ipsen's incident had to be very personal for Amarant: he has expressed he strongly values being able to take care of himself, being able to adventure efficiently, and doing so reasonably. As he lay at Ipsen's, he has no reason to tell himself he has the first two values, and when Zidane saves his life and he just about died but he still doesn't understand why, he can't tell himself he has the third. It's obvious to everyone he is reflecting on his own past when he tells the Fire Guardian randomly battling in bizarre monster holes for no better reason than to test yourself is foolish. It may be less commonly noted that he is not only showing he realizes he very recently nearly died exactly as the Guardian is about to and with nothing better to say for himself, but also his inquiry perseveres even after his trauma and even while facing monsters at the center of volcanos. Plus, in suggesting his earlier goals were foolish and that he who is not a fool should--while still making sure he can explain himself to himself--use their power to some external benefit, he still expects others to be rational.

So Amarant can comprehend and actively apply some of Zidane's notions. In their little talk on the Airship, Amarant tries to get Zidane to explain why he does things. What benefit is Zidane's aim? How does he explain himself? Should Amarant emulate this? As a player, I at first would get frustrated with this scene because none of the options give a reasonable answer. That's exactly what Amarant had to realize: Zidane cannot explain himself. More telling of Amarant than of Zidane, Amarant's first reaction is that this allowance for capricious behavior itself was the cause of Zidane's past advantage: even confirming an element of chaos, he assumes it to work as part of a larger order. Amarant can now explain his pre-Ipsen questions on why Zidane's philosophy has repeatedly appeared illogical--it is--and he is left to answer his post-Ipsen questions, like what does he want to hold himself accountable for and should he embrace Zidane's advantage?

On Terra, Amarant teams up with Eiko on his own initiative in order to possibly help Zidane. Consider the inverted situation from his Madain Sari appearance, as well as his further development having accepted several things: he can voluntarily tolerate irrational people, he can commit to strategic interdependence, he can stick his neck out to help someone he still doesn't really like (as made clear from his encounter with Zidane just earlier). Yet when he does help rescue Zidane, his reaction shows where he is making his stand: he criticizes capriciousness's having risked Zidane's life in needless solo peril in some random castle--an outcome Amarant has specifically decided to avoid--and by damning the hypocrite Amarant shows he is not giving up his idea that people should behave reasonably as judged by their own self-controlled standards.

In what may be the only evidence of any sense of humor whatever, tacit Amarant interrupts Freya to repeatedly ply Zidane with the word 'think': he uses it three time in as many questions, then prompts a conclusion. At BMV, he unhappily identifies with the genomes whom Freya says are just starting their lives for real, asking if people can recover lost time. That's characterization, but his character development continues along this road until after the final boss.

Concluding post-Necron, Amarant shows he has mastered his research subject by finishing Zidane's sentence, justifying going back for Kuja because it is his nature. Zidane doesn't have the rationalism or the self-monitored consistency Amarant respects, and at present Zidane is MORE vulnerable to dying alone in random monster holes for no good reason. Inquiry concludes: Zidane is a fool, but Amarant will still walk all the way to Alexandria to sit with Freya and Quina at a play, and evade the question when Lani asks why.
#18MrFailPosted 11/30/2013 5:26:27 PM
Aha! Now I remember why I knew of you Vir. I believe a year or two ago we had a somewhat lengthy chat over Amarant.
#19Vir27Posted 11/30/2013 5:53:31 PM
Possibly. I'm not in any way passionate for Amarant, but this particular question is the subject of one of my best insights for FF9's plot, for what it's worth. I have been in half a dozen or more discussions about it by now.
#20RedXIII400Posted 11/30/2013 7:19:20 PM(edited)
That was a very good read. And I agree with your opinion.

An outsider, loner, Take-Care-Of-One's-Self type of person being constantly bested by a carefree, happy-go-lucky character who makes him question the possibilities of how and why someone like Zidane, who depends on others, is consistently getting the better of him, and would make him wonder what Zidane is doing right that he is not. Even at Ipsen's Castle, when he challenged Zidane, and then failed to fulfill what he set out to accomplish: Prove that his way, the Depend-on-oneself way was ultimately better than that of Zidane's. It was then that he started to really questions things.

"What gives him that edge? What is it that makes him that much more skilled than I, who had been fending for myselfself for practically my entire life, who has perfected my own style of doing things? Perhaps I could "study" him and see just what that certain edge is. Perhaps I'll stick around and see if I can "secretly" learn from him."

Over time he eventually comes to realize that he is not the same person as he was back then. He has, in fact, made a change for the better; and though he would not openly admit it, he does start to care for the other members of the party. I believe one example is when he chose to go with Eiko to the Fire Shrine. He didn't go just to help her, but he went with Eiko as a way of apologizing to her for what happened in Madain Sari.
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I wanna Climhazzard Vegh's Stock Break until his Thunder Slash gets Shocked, if you know what I mean ~Jukain