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Card arrows arrangement E2PG related

#1Cicatriz_ESPPosted 12/5/2013 2:44:28 PM
I think we've finally came down to the last version of the E2PG FAQ (hopefully) and although I've seen a note on the latest version of the FAQ, addressed to players interested on getting a specific arrow arrangement for the Namingway card, the readers aren't given a more elaborate opinion on this.

I would like to summon Mr MagicalMoogles to provide us with his many lists of card rankings and reoppen the discussion for players interested in the most effective approach, as Mr Moogle's already provide a very satisfying approach based on absolut numbers.
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Sephiroth kills a lady and white materia drops to the floor. But when Cloud mows the lawn, it's brown materia that drops.
#2Cicatriz_ESP(Topic Creator)Posted 12/12/2013 4:59:27 AM
Bump?
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Sephiroth kills a lady and white materia drops to the floor. But when Cloud mows the lawn, it's brown materia that drops.
#3Atomos199Posted 12/12/2013 1:20:16 PM
Cicatriz_ESP posted...
I would like to summon Mr MagicalMoogles to provide us with his many lists of card rankings and reoppen the discussion for players interested in the most effective approach, as Mr Moogle's already provide a very satisfying approach based on absolut numbers.

I'm concerned that this might turn into reopening a can of worms :-)
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I never gained supreme ulti-complete status. I projected my mind ca. 3 years into the future and realized it was going to be a waste of time.
~ bastardpoetry
#4Cicatriz_ESP(Topic Creator)Posted 12/18/2013 10:16:54 AM
Good news (at least for me):

I've managed to salvage all the old lists that Mr Moogles did with many approaches on the arrow distribution business.

There are 5 approaches and I'm giving duo attention to each. I'll post them here later after I've organized everything. As for alterations to your FAQ, Mr Atomos, it all looks very simple.

It all comes down to writing some notes for OCD players to get the respective cards with the amount of arrows to the right:

Namingway: 6 arrows
Blue Narciss: 6 arrows
Red Rose: 6 arrows
Theatre Ship: 5 arrows
Cargo Ship: 5 arrows
Hilda Garde I: 5 arrows
Hilda Garde III: 5 arrows

The reason why is that they are limited amount and all of them fall on the same bucket when all lists are compared.*

* The only exception is the Theatre Ship, which according to the 'Defense-route' is placed higher in the ranking, with 6 arrows. the only odd ball out of 30 cases.

Mr Moogles, can you please give me a link to the source were you verify the actual max values on the cards? I suspect there are some inconsistencies on the Tetra Master FAQ here. You've place the Genji card higher than Lindbulm/Alexandria on your list, although it has A-6 defense, instead of B-6.
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Sephiroth kills a lady and white materia drops to the floor. But when Cloud mows the lawn, it's brown materia that drops.
#5Cicatriz_ESP(Topic Creator)Posted 12/18/2013 10:48:30 AM(edited)
Additional question:

Doesn't the game separate the cards by 'rarity' when deciding to which NPC to handle the cards?
Or am I remembering wrong?

ex: Old Man by the docks in Alexandria, play cards from rarity 1-4.
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Sephiroth kills a lady and white materia drops to the floor. But when Cloud mows the lawn, it's brown materia that drops.
#6Atomos199Posted 12/18/2013 10:53:01 AM
Hmm, but there's also the problem of how those 5/6 arrows are arranged. There's just so many possibilities. That's why I've avoided going into any sort of detail on these issues. You could seriously write a whole FAQ on just this aspect.
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I never gained supreme ulti-complete status. I projected my mind ca. 3 years into the future and realized it was going to be a waste of time.
~ bastardpoetry
#7aladore384Posted 12/18/2013 11:33:15 AM
Cicatriz_ESP posted...
Mr Moogles, can you please give me a link to the source were you verify the actual max values on the cards? I suspect there are some inconsistencies on the Tetra Master FAQ here. You've place the Genji card higher than Lindbulm/Alexandria on your list, although it has A-6 defense, instead of B-6.


There are at least two sources that I know :

First is when I asked questions about it, Revival Flame kindly send it :

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/197338-final-fantasy-ix/56828459

See message #10 and #13

Second is from this thread : http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/197338-final-fantasy-ix/66055311/2

See message #4 : http://www.espritduo.com/random/ff9_card_data.txt
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http://www.youtube.com/aladore384
#8Cicatriz_ESP(Topic Creator)Posted 12/19/2013 3:42:23 AM
Thank you so much, Mr Aladore. Mr espiritduo tables have been really helpful.

Att Mr Moogles: forget what I said about the Genji card. I thought that each hex value related to a unique 'true' value, but turns out that each card has it's own max value for each entry, even though they look similar on their face values.

Based on this info, I'm strongly inclined to believe you were right all this time, Mr Moogles. Your approach, although not being virtually the best efficient approach to arrow distribution, is all around very consistent and offers a very good deck.

I'm finishing some bits of my research and I'll post the results here.

Att Mr Atomos, I understand how daunting all this may seem, but believe me, there may/should/could be some more people with OCD just like me, and if they'd managed to finish the whole challenge only to discover that 7 unique cards have a random-inconsistent set of arrows, they'd feel let down. I just want to offer them a consistent approach to it. It may take just one paragraph on your FAQ and the list that Mr Moogles provided.
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Sephiroth kills a lady and white materia drops to the floor. But when Cloud mows the lawn, it's brown materia that drops.
#9Cicatriz_ESP(Topic Creator)Posted 12/19/2013 9:16:57 AM
Voilá! The bellow list shows the cards ranked by maximum combined stats. To the left is the number of arrows the card should have. To the right is the sum of the cards real maximum stats. The lists makes sure you have the absolute maximum of accumulated arrows across the board (540). Draws were decided based on the following criteria: A) maximum real attack power; B) card number in the menu. Cards marked with an * are limited availability. You'll find Espiritduo' list with the card face stats (the ones you should aim for) here: http://www.espritduo.com/random/ff9_card_data.txt

8 Nova_Dragon 555
7 Invincible ................531
7 Alexander ................494
7 Hades ................470
7 Ribbon ................467
7 Dark_Matter 450
7 Excalibur_II 441
7 Masamune 438
7 Bahamut ................428
6 Ozma ................426
6 Odin ................413
6 Ark ................412
6 Viltgance ................405
6 Airship ................383
6 Boco ................382
6 Namingway 381 *
6 Ultima_Weapon 374
6 Behemoth 366
6 Mover ................360
6 Meteor ................354
6 Iron_Man ................319
6 Blue_Narciss 307 *
6 Red_Rose 307 *
6 Leviathan ................305
6 Elixir ................300
6 Genji ................290
6 Two_Moons 289
6 Lindblum ................284
6 Madeen ................284
6 Alexandria 282
6 Abadon ................275
6 Ifrit ................267
6 Atomos ................266
6 Veteran ................265
6 Cactuar ................252
6 Flare ................242
6 Malboro ................242
5 Holy ................237
5 Grand_Dragon 213
5 Garuda ................199
5 Zemzelett ................199
5 Fenrir ................197
5 Armstrong 196
5 Vepal ................193
5 Ogre ................192
5 Gargoyle ................189
5 Wraith ................186
5 Abomination 186
5 Shiva ................184
5 Save_the_Queen 182
5 Hilda_Garde_1 176 *
5 Hilda_Garde_3 176 *
5 Blazer_Beetle 176
5 Grimlock ................175
5 Feather_Circle 165
5 Hecteyes ................161
5 Troll ................161
5 Theater_Ship 158 *
5 Tantarian ................157
5 Cargo_Ship 155 *
5 Stroper ................145
5 Tonberry ................145
5 Ralvuimahgo 141
5 Antlion ................126
5 Hedgehog_Pie 121
5 Ragtimer ................121
5 Gargant ................119
5 Ochu ................118
5 Gimme_Cat 117
5 Dragonfly ................104
5 Carrion_Worm 101
5 Cerberus ................98
5 Sand_Golem 95
5 Sand_Scorpion 91
5 Nymph ................89
5 Zuu ................88
5 Mandragora 87
5 Fat_Chocobo 85
5 Oglop ................79
5 Crawler ................79
5 Mimic ................76
5 Wyerd ................73
5 Yeti ................59
5 Ironite ................59
5 Bomb ................54
5 Zombie ................49
5 Sahagin ................47
5 Mythril_Sword 42
5 Zaghnol ................41
5 Lizard_Man 40
5 Flan ................38
5 Tiger_Racket 36
5 Skeleton ................33
4 Fang ................23
4 Chocobo ................20
4 Mog ................20
4 Goblin ................20
4 Frog ................6

TL;DR: Try to obtain Namingway, Blue Narciss and Red Rose with 6 arrows each, and Cargo/Theater Ship and the Hilda Gardes with 5 arrows each.

The more points it has, the more arrows it'll have. I'm studying a way/trying to find a program that generates all possible combinations following some pattern in a crescent manner, should there be anyone as obsessed as me with perfection.
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Sephiroth kills a lady and white materia drops to the floor. But when Cloud mows the lawn, it's brown materia that drops.
#10Cicatriz_ESP(Topic Creator)Posted 12/19/2013 9:24:38 AM
That's some bad formatting there. XD
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Sephiroth kills a lady and white materia drops to the floor. But when Cloud mows the lawn, it's brown materia that drops.