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Please give feedback on FF9 mod; probable spoilers

#1Vir27Posted 6/27/2014 7:40:24 PM
I have some more time again (might be the avid forum reader noticed I have some time from the even lengthier than normal rants I've been getting into ^^ ), and I'm interested in my FF9 patch again. I can't think of much new for me to tweak, though, so I was really hoping to get some more input on any of my changes that you all think might not be balanced yet so I can see what I think of them after peer-review and/or so I can start a perfect game of my modded game in full confidence :)

Also, my whole concept here is not to make a difficulty mod or otherwise change the balance of PCs vs. monsters. This mod is simply to tweak some small idiosyncrasies within the cast while maintaining the overall balance, because FF9's PCs are nicely balanced as far as any RPG cast I know is. So if anyone else can think of anything that's just a little off (like why should the Angel Flute and Whale Whisker ultimate weapons be useless compared to the Tiger Racket? why should Brave Suit be so weak compared to even Black Robe? or why should the the gigantic monk Amarant and the heavy-armored dragoon Freya be fully 10% less strong than the... not gigantic thief Zidane?), please let me know because that's what I'm about here.


Also also, if you're not interested in these piddly balance issues, perhaps you'll be interested if I mention that I did fix Thunder Slash and remove forced exp.

Here is the link to the description and mod: http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=15217.0 .

If it would be good to copy the whole thing over here, I certainly will. But it's a lot of text and maybe no one will read this topic at all I start with three or four forum posts.


I want to review feedback I got in my previous topics here, though, because I did appreciate it.

BronzeStuff made a swell number of comments. He suggested maybe nerfing Zidane's and Amarant's Str. I agree with his assessment that Amarant arguably has too many advantages inherent in his skill set to also hit so hard. However, one of the idiosyncracies I was targeting was actually raising his Str for several reasons. 1) He (Vivi, Freya, and Quina) had gimped stat potential due to having no weapon with stats, and I didn't like that. 2) He is a monk and should not, to my mind, be so much weaker than a thief. 3) He is huge and should not, to my mind, be so much weaker than someone half of each of his dimensions. 4) I did extensive calculations to make sure Square's hierarchy of how hard everyone Attacks (i.e., Zidane Attacks harder than Amarant who Attacks harder than Freya who can Jump) relative to everyone else remains intact and pretty much hard to distinguish from the original balance after my changes, because I intended not to mess up the original balance. So thank you BronzeStuff and I hope you can appreciate why I didn't use your feedback. I can show you how to nerf him easy, if you'd like ;)

BronzeStuff also brought up one of the major areas we definitely have full power to work on: rebalancing magic stones and costs, if we think we need to. I did not do this. It seemed to be stepping beyond my initial scope of tweaking idiosyncracies. BUT if you guys thought there were need and wanted to help (I don't want to open the can of worms and be unable to finish putting them back in), I'll work on it, too.

andriin1990 pitched in that he thought magic stone balance was too subjective.

The Great Atomos said what anyone must be thinking, but no, I cannot change the ATB. He also pointed out that equipment stats and elements make a bigger difference than stat points. That is very much the case and I do believe I have done enough number crunching to call the tweaks I have made in those areas rebalanced.
#2XtraTPosted 6/28/2014 8:15:41 AM
Seems like the idea of your mod is mostly QoL changes for PG players. Since there's no difficulty rebalance like you said I'm afraid any other normal playtrough will still end up in 9999 spam.

As someone who did an EX2PG and 2 runs of FF9 Unleashed (a hard mod) I don't see why I should play your mod, but that's just me.
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Grand Marshal/Gladiator Priest, Lightplol.
PvE gladiator holy paladin, Lightp.
#3Vir27(Topic Creator)Posted 6/28/2014 9:47:34 AM(edited)
I think you're quite right.

I don't know if only E2PG players could ever be interested, though. They might have more reasons to be interested due to the stat rebalance. But fixing Thunder Slash, say, while minor, is something any player might want. Who wants bugs? Likewise, suppose you just wanted to play FF9: is it any benefit to you that the "medium armor" compraratively stinks? That The Tower, Whale Whisker, Angel Flute, etc., are immediately obsolete? If you weren't going to play a PG, it's pretty safe to say a regular game isn't giving anything up to these tweaks, I think.

I don't actually have it in mind that a lot of people will play this, let alone to the exclusion of anything else. I made it explicitly to my tastes, so if anyone at all ever thought it was a comparable option to the original, then my time would have been that much better spent, but yea. Otherwise, there are barely any mods out there but this program is, so publicity for Hades Workshop could lead to good stuff! The impression I have of modding in general, you know from Qhimm, InsaneDifficulty, as well as plenty of PC games and such, is that you have some take on tweaking the game and you put it out there and people who might like it do.

There is already a difficulty mod, so do you think of something that does have broad appeal to the community? I would be for discussing it.

Thanks for the feedback!
#4XtraTPosted 6/28/2014 11:00:01 AM
Robes do give you a weakness to fire which is very noticeable if you make the game harder, otherwise you're right. Like I said I appreciate the QoL changes but Thunder Slash and minor weapon/stat changes won't change the way I play in normal game.

You can make ultimate weapons more interesting than just stat boost (like FF9 unleashed did
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Grand Marshal/Gladiator Priest, Lightplol.
PvE gladiator holy paladin, Lightp.
#5Vir27(Topic Creator)Posted 6/28/2014 11:27:38 AM(edited)
I'll look into that last part. Ok, if I'm not mistaken, you're talking about:

Ultima Weapon - Holy, absorbs Shadow
Excalibur II - Holy, absorbs Shadow
Dragon’s Hair - Fire, absorbs Ice
Rune Claws - Shadow, absorbs Holy
Gastro Fork - Wind, absorbs Earth
Mace of Zeus - Shadow, absorbs Holy
Whale Whisker - Water, absorbs Lightning
Angel Flute - Holy, absorbs Shadow
Tiger Racket - Wind, absorbs Earth

[They also boost their damage types]

Probably'd be OP in the main game balance, but maybe without the boost? Or am I being too conservative about the original balance? Sure would make for interesting healing setups, though!

I'll tell you what practical variables we have to play with for items:

Which abilities it grants
Stat boosts
Absorbs
Cancels
Halves
Weakens
Boosts
Attacks with elements
Which characters can use it
Attack
Formula
Status inflcition

Giving all the ultimates (fork too?) the Save the Queen formula could be neat. Here it is for the contrast (we'd have to rebalance end-game thief and knight swords):

----------------
Standard Weapons
----------------
Base = Atk - Def
Bonus = Str + Rnd MOD ([(Lvl + Str) / 8] + 1)
Damage = Base * Bonus

Used by Dagger, Sword, Staff, Rod, Spear, Claw, Flute.


--------------
Save The Queen
--------------
Base = (Atk + Lvl) - Def
Bonus = Str + Rnd MOD ([(Lvl + Str) / 8] + 1)
Damage = Base * Bonus


You have given me an idea, though: rebalancing the monsters just on Disc 4 (story reason: effects of the concentrated Mist??) could be cool and jibe with upped ultimate weapons!
#6XtraTPosted 6/28/2014 12:12:21 PM
In unleashed no equipment grants absorb except the ultimate weapons so it's balanced (elemental absorbtion pretty much negate any challenge outside an E2PG). I'm not saying you should do the same but it's just to give you an idea on how you can make ultimate weapons interesting.

Then again I never checked what's modable in FF9 (I know there's tools now) but giving ultimates more Attack damage would be useless if there's stuff like Dragon's Crest/Thievery/fixed dmg shenanigans.
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Grand Marshal/Gladiator Priest, Lightplol.
PvE gladiator holy paladin, Lightp.
#7Vir27(Topic Creator)Posted 6/28/2014 1:18:52 PM
Oh, I didn't know those were the only absorptions.

Yes, I got you that it was a suggestion, I was just commenting on it before breaking into other possibilities for the ultimates ;) Thanks for continuing discussing.

More damage would probably be like max Spr. You're more powerful, but it's not like there's anything you needed it for.

This does make me more interested in powering up the Disc 4 monsters. Sounds much easier than a difficulty mod, too, and it wouldn't affect the other discs. Still not committing to doing it, but it's a continually more attractive idea.
#8aladore384Posted 6/29/2014 11:32:20 PM
Hey Vir ! Thanks to you I looked into Hades Workshop.

I was wondering about the Thunder Slash Glitch. Do you only have to set it from "Gravity Magic" to "Physical attack" in order to make the move as it was intended by the developers ?

What about Iai Strike ? To which amount do you have to lower its accuracy ?
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http://www.youtube.com/aladore384
#9Vir27(Topic Creator)Posted 6/30/2014 12:35:45 AM(edited)
I am just as glad if anyone else is interested in FF9 mods as I am if anyone is interested in my mod, so please feel free to bring on the questions.

I can't speak for the intentions of the developers, necessarily, but setting it to "Physical attack" both allows it to hit (well, I presume so far!) and makes it seem similar to the settings on other skills. I don't believe I did anything else to it: right.

I'm sorry, I'm not aware of a problem with Iai Strike? It doesn't work?
#10aladore384Posted 6/30/2014 4:20:49 AM(edited)
Vir27 posted...
I'm sorry, I'm not aware of a problem with Iai Strike? It doesn't work?


On the contrary. I always read how over powerful it is because its accuracy is too high (apparently itīs related to the Thunder Slash Glitch)

Unrelated : I played around a lil with the tool and holding the Save The Queen w/ Steiner is kinda cool. But Excalibur II + Rebirth Ring is still better :)

EDIT : I expect it's possible with HW to add previous party members like Beatrix or Blank, right ? That'd be nice as I always were reluctant to do that by Gameshark codes.
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http://www.youtube.com/aladore384