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All We've Learned About Propositions

#1Xgamer4Posted 11/10/2005 2:12:53 PMmessage detail
The original "Proposition FAQ Topic" began on August 8th, 2003 and included a good deal of numerical data proving the below conclusions. jizus, Corkadile, Xgamer4, and several others were loyal testers and/or bumpers. RIP, Proposition FAQ Topic.

Like a phoenix risen from the ashes...we have another Proposition "Prop" topic. This topic is intended to answer questions regarding the mysterious mechanics of props. We've answered several questions regarding props, however, several more remain. If anyone would like to delve into prop testing simply post here and we will let you know what avenues would be the most profitable. Without further ado here're the findings from the previous topic.

#1: There are three possible outcomes to a prop: success with reward, success without reward, and failure. After succeeding at a prop it disappears permanently. If you fail or succeed without a reward you're given a chance to repeat the prop 15-16 days later. This continues until you succeed at the prop.

#2: The jobs that the generics are currently in affects the success rate of the prop (plus the JP/gil rewarded). For every prop there is one class that gives extra messages at the end suggesting that they were the best class. These 'message' jobs produce relatively large amounts of JP and gil (along with high success rates). However, after a good deal of testing we have yet to see the 'message' job produce the best results. Even more annoying, the job that's truly the best can't be IDed from the bartender's comments/FAQs...it seems to be completely illogical, unfortunately.

#3: There is some degree of randomness in the gil-reward props. One prop, if repeated under identical conditions, may result in different amounts of gil/JP and different levels of success. However, for each set of props and conditions there appear to be no more than three possible outcomes.

#4: Two uneqiupped level 1 generics can succeed at a prop that opens late in Chapter 4. This (along with some other test results) almost certainly means that success isn't based on levels, equips, or stats outside of Br/Fa.

#5: JP earned and success rate appear to be directly related. The generics that gain the largest amounts of JP from a prop, when combined, generally produce the highest success rates.

#6: The generic that does the reporting usually appears to be the weakest generic (the generic that gains the smallest amount of JP). I suspect that this is because the 'lead' generic often has to congratulate a second generic by saying "Thanks to (Time Mage), everything was fine". I.e. the best generic can't report or they would have to congratulate themselves. We'll have to test to see if there is more to it.

#7: Success + reward quotes are:
"This job's a gift from God." - Fa higher than Br
"I had(female)/got(male) a good feeling." - Fa/Br near even
"Just leave it all to me!" - Br higher than Fa
"With me, this job's easy." - Br higher than Fa

Success, no reward quotes are:

"This sure was the right job."
"Glad you picked this job, huh?"
"God gave us this job, I know it."
"Next time"
"We'll do better next time"

Failure quotes are:

"Gotta pick better jobs"
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#2Xgamer4(Topic Creator)Posted 11/10/2005 2:13:08 PMmessage detail
#8: The number of days that it takes you to return to pick up your generics from a completed prop doesn't matter. However, if you send your generics out for the maximum number of days you will receive slightly higher JP/gil rewards.

#9: When the success level of a prop varies (from success without treasure to success with treasure, for example) the JP gained varies by a constant amount. I assume that this means that there is a formula that calculates the base JP gain (probably the amount that you receive when you fail) and a formula that calculates the constant. We don't yet have enough data to be able to ID this equation.

#10: Br and Fa effect the gil/JP received from some (all?) props. In some cases a lower Br causes better results, possibly because Fa is higher by comparison. Apparently, when a character's Br or Fa is raised/lowered past a particular threshold the results of the prop are affected. (It's not a continuous scale - there are a finite number of results)

#11: There is a glitch in the congratulated generic dialogue. At times an (apparently) random job class is congratulated, even if the job class impossible to get (i.e. Ghost of Fury). After a limited amount of testing this appears to occur often at Ruins in Bed Desert" in Bervenia.

#12: Samurai are often either the best or the worst job by a healthy margin. Whether this is a sampling error or a strange trend remains to be seen.

#13: Thus far we've identified a few 'best' jobs for certain props. They are: Archers for Ruins at Bed Desert, Ninjas for Challenge of Zero, Mimes for Emissary of Lionel, Archers for I saw it, and Mediators for Protect the Little Life. Gil reward props cause uncertainty in our results, so thus far we can only say that Wizards/Geos appear good for Storm of Zigolas, Archers/Chemists appear good for Trade Ship Douing, and Priests/Mediators appear good for My Little Carrot.

#14: Props are no easier or harder when repeated. JP, gil, and success rates stay constant.
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#3Xgamer4(Topic Creator)Posted 11/10/2005 2:14:31 PMmessage detail
This information was all compiled and typed up by WPot around two years ago. I'm unsure where he went, but by the end of it he was talking about how he had less and less time to work on it due to problems and such in his real life. I am unsure where he is now, but I haven't seen him since the topic I copied this from, around two years ago also, ended.
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#4alkanshelPosted 11/10/2005 7:23:16 PMmessage detail
Wpot...
I miss that guy.

Awesome work saving the propositions, man. Awesome.
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#5Xgamer4(Topic Creator)Posted 11/10/2005 8:23:39 PMmessage detail
Yeah, I miss him to.

As for saving everything, no prob. I figured I should save something I helped work on.
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#6frickenmoronPosted 11/11/2005 5:54:40 AMmessage detail
thanks for the info..... i often wondered why my team failed at so many props :/ usualy had a samurai with me.....

Also quite the irony: I sent 3 Calculators on the "teach the boy math" and they failed... they congratulated a "Squire" too, which freaked me out :P
#7wpotPosted 11/11/2005 3:50:49 PMmessage detail
What's that I hear...a call for wpot?? Have no fear...! :)

Have you guys been posting messages about me for the past two years, or did I pick a good day to make my triumphant return to the board??

For those of you wondering about the continuing saga of wpot, I was in Grad school 2 years ago. It got real busy near the end, so my gaming time slowly shrunk from little to zero. After I graduated, I went to work at a place with a nasty gaming site firewall. :( I continue to be remarkably cheap and use a free dial-up modem at home, so the slowness of this process makes me much less likely to hang around.

Nonetheless, excellent work keeping the dream alive! It looks like the infos stayed more or less the same for a couple years? I still have all of the old data saved should anyone want it.

Whoops - I gotta go. Fear not, I'll return soon (tonight or sometime this weekend) and I'll be with you in spirit until then!

*Salutes Xgamer4 and alkanshel*
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Pronounced "Whup-pot". Say it. Use it.
#8Bloodstained AgarPosted 11/11/2005 5:00:35 PMmessage detail
Some topics (some worthy and the others not) are available in the Archives (follow the link below, my sig) I created this year. They are far from completed, and I miss a lot of old topics worthy of being archived. Anyway, it's always a pleasure to meet returning vets.
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#9BulbaboyPosted 11/11/2005 5:51:01 PMmessage detail
I like the guy already. He's literate, has made worthwhile contributions to our knowledge of the game, and has a good quote (if one knows the context, at least) :).
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#10triaxx2Posted 11/11/2005 6:30:12 PMmessage detail
All Hail wpot!

I'm anxiously awaiting the findings of this. It's one of the few things we don't know quite as much as we should about. Unless you want to bring up the ending, which I'm sure no one does.

Is the Calc good for any particular Proposition?
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