This is a split board - You can return to the Split List for other boards.

Optimizing the Level Up/Down trick

#1RaijiniliPosted 1/11/2008 7:25:28 AM
I had a big post typed up, but then I went to check whether Hamedo granted experience on ePSXe, and Firefox screwed up because of either the emulator or Daemon Tools (yes, I'm using Session manager; yes, it screwed up that badly). So much for the joys of checking on things yourself. (By the way, the answer was no. Two disappointments in one.)

This is mostly useless, but it might be fun!

Level Up considerations (mimeless):
1) Have a level 99 unit to be a punching bag. This caps the max level of your LU unit at 59, for efficiency.
2) Gained Exp Up. Lets you level up once per action.
3a) Petrify your uninvolved allies. Decreases Wait time. Surround the enemy with these stones, so as to make him/her/it impotent.
3b) Speed Save on the LU unit. If this is done, then don't petrify allies, since they can help with the speed. Use Throw Stone for range, small damage, and 100% hit. Also, consider Miming the Throw Stones (if you can have multiple Speed Saves in one turn). The enemy is free to run around, which may be a problem.
3c) No setup at all. Don't take the time to set up.
4) If using Speed Save: Can't use Blood Sword to self-heal, since the good LU classes can't Sword, and Gained XP Up > Equip Sword. Alternate between attacking the L99 unit and Chakra, although this would cause major problems with Mimes. Probably not a good idea to Mime the Throw Stones, then. On the other hand, it's a simple thing to put the Mime one space away from the LU unit, and thus it's not much of an issue.
5) If not using Speed Save: What would be the best action for the LU unit to use? Life Song would require the L99 unit to be damaged regularly. Hamedo might fix that, except Hamedo isn't 100% hit. Also, a Speed 14 unit not moving every turn would outpace Life Song.
6) What skill has animation faster than the average of Chakra and Attack?
7) Would it be efficient to have multiple people Level Up at once? I say yes
8) If a Ninja, how do we minimize damage so that it doesn't kill the L99 unit? Autopotion on the L99 unit (costly)? Damage Split? Daggers and Ninja Knives are out of the question for Speed Saving. Punching would be subject to Double Sword. A single Flail would probably be good, along with Damage Split on the L99 character to increase effectiveness of Chakra. On the other hand, the LU unit is getting damaged by Throw Stone already.
9) Speed Break the L99 unit? In fact, Speed Breaking the Mimes would be good, since their Attack is strong enough to be a problem. What about Power Break?

Mime Level Up:
1) Only one Mime leveling up at a time? Multiple Mimes would decrease the number of possible actions per round.
2) Allies can alternate between Chakra and Attack to have the Mime act more often. One or more of them can also be LU'ing on the L99 unit at the same time.

General Level Up:
What are the best ways to Level Up (i.e. classes)? What's the goal? Does one weigh more on the Ninja so as to increase speed, or the Mime due to the difficulty of MA leveling?
#2Raijinili(Topic Creator)Posted 1/11/2008 7:25:47 AM
Level Down:
1) I BELIEVE there is no map with more than one Degenerator. In that case, what's the best map to use? Keep in mind that Mindflares might not be the most useful for battle, so weak enemies are better.
2) Multiple units Leveling Down at the same time?
3) There are two ways to use Degenerators: Teleport-failing, or taking turns. The problem with Teleport-failing is that it's annoying to scroll all the way to the other side of the map so as to ensure the fail. Taking turns requires setting up the CT so that the unit on the Degenerator will get a double turn on the other unit every time (possible if the unit getting off takes an action that turn), which is tricky. But this is the FFT board, so we'll find a way!
4) To get a double turn every other round, the difference in CT between the two units should be... what? This is definitely tricky, since CT can go above 100. Also, the speeds should be the same, to keep equilibrium. If the difference in CT is 10, and each unit has 10 speed, then it's easy, but you'd have to set up the speed to be 10, which might be inefficient.
5) Bard is obviously the best unit to level down for Male. Chemist for Female if you want PA, and Dancer if you want MP (but PA is considered better).

Let's see how many people actually care about this topic.

WALL OF TEXT!
#3Mr HangmanPosted 1/11/2008 10:51:06 AM
Up:

1-2) Sounds right.

3) Just make sure the remaining character can hit the enemy after he's surrounded in stone, you could potentially set up a battle you couldn't win or lose.

4-5) By petrifying or speed breaking everyone but the level up character, speed save should be unnecessary. To me it sounds like more trouble than it's worth.

6) Steal gil is an option. If the enemy is level 95+ and has been frogged or power broken, they won't be a threat.

7) I see no problem with this.

8) Give the L99 unit a Chantage. This should take care of everything unless you have the level up character speed save a bunch. Also give the L99 character HP Restore.

9) Speed breaking the L99 unit would make the chantage useless, but that's no problem if you power break the level up character.

I don't have too much experience with mimes.

The goal is whatever you want it to be. I would level up only as Ninja, Mime, and Summoner if necessary to offset the Mime's MP.

Down:

1) The maps with Degenerators are:
Zeklaus Desert
Fovoham Plains
Bervenia Volcano (it's on lava)
Dolboldar Swamp
TERMINATE

Each of them only have one. Bervenia is obviously a bad choice, so that's out. TERMINATE is nice since you don't have to wander around the map, you just select a battle. I don't think the differences in enemies are significant to an end game team.

2) It would mean sharing a trap, which means you only utilize every other turn. I wouldn't bother with that. You could also petrify one person who is going to level down and heal them later, which is fine if you have the right skillsets for it.

3) Scrolling across the map to make teleport fail may be a minor irritation, but it's certainly better than anything else in my opinion.

4) This seems like a waste of time to me, I don't think any intricate setup will be more efficient than teleporting.

5) Yup.
---
What senses do we lack that we cannot see and cannot hear another world all around us? -Dune
Watch the Colbert Report! It's crumbelievable!
#4IxuPosted 1/11/2008 12:27:36 PM
I like using Mind Flares for leveling down, since you can several working on a person. This means you have fewer people to stabilize the enemies, but really one guy with Math Skill can handle that, especially on easy maps like Deep Dungeon's first level with the goblins or Mag Plains, leaving you three Mindflares to work the subject.
#5Mr HangmanPosted 1/11/2008 12:43:16 PM
I'd say that's better too, except I wouldn't be willing to use space in my roster for that.
---
What senses do we lack that we cannot see and cannot hear another world all around us? -Dune
Watch the Colbert Report! It's crumbelievable!
#6ZodiacFFTMPosted 1/11/2008 2:20:17 PM
Teleport fail is almost if not twice faster than taking 2 turns to step on the trap.
---
I'm not really a secretary.
I'm actually... A GUN!
-Girly
#7Raijinili(Topic Creator)Posted 1/11/2008 2:42:34 PM
Is that taking into consideration that no one claimed that a single person stepping on and off would be in any way considered at all?
#8Mr HangmanPosted 1/11/2008 2:54:51 PM
If I understood your plan in #3 and 4 correctly, you suggested that two characters alternate stepping on and off the trap. Even if you manipulated the CT so that it went two turns person A, then two turns person B, that's not in any way more efficient than one guy doing that. It's without a doubt slower no matter how you do it. The only sensible methods are teleport-fail or mindflares.
---
What senses do we lack that we cannot see and cannot hear another world all around us? -Dune
Watch the Colbert Report! It's crumbelievable!
#9AquaHautePosted 1/11/2008 2:57:39 PM
But we're not saying "one character stepping on and off vs. two characters stepping on and off - which one is faster". That's comparing apples and oranges, because the question now is about the most efficient way to do this with two characters at once.
---
SCCs completed: bdDc, Pr, Ge, Ln, Mk, Md, Nj, Or. In progress: Su, Ar, Wi.
2007 Detroit Tigers: 88-74. Nena >>> you.
#10JulfordPosted 1/11/2008 3:04:35 PM
Three mindflares and two people getting level-downed after the enemies are dead?

Then next fight could be the same, thus having FOUR lv. 1 people.

Third fight, lvl 99 guy clears the field (Except for one left alive and harmless), proceeded by lv. 1 charries beating on lv. 99 guy until they're lv. 59?

I don't know if it'd work perfectly, but it was my first thought >.>
---
Orlandu Lightning Stabs poor grammar
FFT SSCC's Completed: Holy Swordsman