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Help with Enc-Half / Enc-None

#1StrangesoundsPosted 4/22/2010 1:52:16 PM
I am currently maxing out the GF's that I have and I finally decided to have Diabolos learn the Enc-Half / Enc-None abilities (I don't mind leveling up personally).

Thing is - The Enc-None is NOT showing up on the list and he's fully maxed out. In place of where Enc-None SHOULD be, I have "SumMag+10%" which is not showing up on the walkthroughs I've seen.

Did I do something wrong, or does either my character or the GF need to be at a specific level to trigger it. Because there is nothing left that Diabolos is allowing me to learn.

Thanks for any help you can give.
#2Strangesounds(Topic Creator)Posted 4/22/2010 1:56:47 PM
OK I took a chance and unlearned that SumMag thing - and Enc-None took it's place.

So I guess my other question would be then - if you learn certain abilities is it possible to BLOCK OUT other "stronger" abilities?

For example

HP +20%
something else not really important.

If I learn the "something else" FIRST - is it possible to potentially block "HP+40%" that would show up if I learned the 20% first?

Cause that's the only thing I can think of unless I used an item to teach Diabolos that SumMag trick which I honestly don't think I have used ANY of these items on any GF..

Such a confusing headache...
#3sniperfox29Posted 4/22/2010 2:02:19 PM
Diablos doesn't have SumMag because his attack is fixed to his level (also why you cannot boost his damage).

Therefore you DID use an item to teach the skill (and since it cannot be used, it was completely wasted).

Ignoring your mistake, if you use an item to teach a GF an ability, and then max out there abilities through either further items or naturally learnt abilities, any natural abilities that are unlocked through prerequisite will be lost unless you delete some other abilities first.
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Unrepentant and Unrestrained.
GT - Sniper Fox29.
#4sniperfox29Posted 4/22/2010 2:04:51 PM
Oh, and in case you didn't already know. GF's can only have a set number of abilities (22 I believe), so that's why Diablos couldn't learn encounter none because you'd hit that target after you used an item to teach him SumMag.

The game doesn't decide which abilities can't be learnt, if there's no room, there's no room regardless of how good/bad/indifferent an ability is.
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Unrepentant and Unrestrained.
GT - Sniper Fox29.
#5Moomba33Posted 4/22/2010 2:08:42 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#6phiefer3Posted 4/22/2010 2:49:36 PM
Yeah, as noted all GFs only have enough room to learn 22 abilities, also all GFs learn exactly 22 abilities naturally. If you use an item to teach a GF an ability (assuming it's not an ability it would have naturally learned) you WILL be taking up one extra space and it won't be able to learn all of it's natural abilities as a result. As in this case where you taught him SumMag+10% which ended meaning there was no room for Enc-None to show up.

Also, it's worth noting that if you end up in such a situation and you delete an ability then the blocked ability that couldn't show up before will then show up in its place for you to learn (unless of course the ability you deleted was the prerequisite for the blocked ability). Again, you saw this when you deleted SumMag+10% from Diablos and Enc-None became available to learn.

Generally, teaching a GF additional abilities will not cause any permanent damage, as you can always remove excess abilities to get to the ones being blocked. However, deleting abilities has the potential to create permanent problems, unless you delete an ability that can be retaught through items, in which case you can not only get that ability back, but also get back any unlearned abilities that the first was a prerequisite for.

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Everytime you see him, the phiefer's just so hype. He's dope on the board and he's magic on the mic. ~fidormula
#7_Red___XIII_Posted 4/22/2010 3:12:50 PM

From: phiefer3 | Posted: 4/22/2010 10:49:36 AM
Generally, teaching a GF additional abilities will not cause any permanent damage, as you can always remove excess abilities to get to the ones being blocked. However, deleting abilities has the potential to create permanent problems, unless you delete an ability that can be retaught through items, in which case you can not only get that ability back, but also get back any unlearned abilities that the first was a prerequisite for.


I was under the impression that if you deleted a pre-requisite learned ability before the ability that required it showed up (due to full list) and then deleted that pre-requisite that the ability wouldn't show up. Then after that if you deleted another actually useless ability and then taught the pre-requisite ability that you had deleted via item that the ability requiring it wouldn't show up.
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"To be fair, [what he was saying] was actually on-topic. Even if he got to the subject as an end result of a jaunt into complete irrelevancy". -Vil
#8phiefer3Posted 4/22/2010 3:55:09 PM
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Let's use Card and Card Mod as an example on Quez (ignore the problem of getting a Gambler Spirit to reteach Card without already having Card Mod): So Card is the prerequisite learned ability and Card Mod is the ability that requires Card:

if you deleted Card before the Card Mod showed up (due to full list) and then deleted Card that the ability wouldn't show up.
.....do you see the part of this that confuses me? If you deleted Card before Card Mod appeared and then deleted Card....again?

Then after that if you deleted Draw and then taught Card that you had deleted via item that Card Mod wouldn't show up.

(draw was used as the useless ability since you'll have other copies of it)

Anyways, I'm pretty sure that you're mistaken. If you delete Card before Card Mod is learned, then Card Mod will disappear. If you then used a Gambler Spirit to reteach Card to Quez, then Card Mod would again appear so you could learn it. Likewise if you were to teach too many abilities to Quez so that Card Mod gets bumped off the list and then delete another ability, then Card Mod would also reappear to be learnable. So I see no reason why the 2 of these together wouldn't work. As long as you have the room to learn it and you know the prerequisite the ability will show up.

The only thing that I believe will prevent the secondary ability from showing up is if you already learned it before and deleted it as well.

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http://www.geekologie.com/2008/08/25/ninja.jpg
Everytime you see him, the phiefer's just so hype. He's dope on the board and he's magic on the mic. ~fidormula
#9_Red___XIII_Posted 4/22/2010 4:11:47 PM
Okay thanks, wasn't sure. And yeah the deleting pre-requisite twice was a typo.
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"To be fair, [what he was saying] was actually on-topic. Even if he got to the subject as an end result of a jaunt into complete irrelevancy". -Vil
#10Strangesounds(Topic Creator)Posted 4/22/2010 6:34:53 PM
Everything you all shared (thank you by the way), I figured it out. I must have gotten an item and experimented using it on him and therefore blocked out the 22nd natural ability.

I just completed the Shumi Village sidequest that got me the 4xSat-Def-J thingy and since I had a character that had NONE, I wanted to give it to him - so now I'm more conscious about using 'em - if I want to delete one; make sure it's unique (and now that I have 100 ultima in one character, I don't need the 20%, 40% AND 80% hp, so I deleted the 20% and got that in exchange.

So yeah I get it now LOL - thanks again...