The Legend of Dragoon
what's with all the dart bashing?
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reading a few archived threads, and while I agree how useful Rose, Meru, Albert, etc can be, people seem to put Dart really low on the totem pole when he clearly outshines them ALL. Final burst wrecks whatever is in his way and with amulet he can do final burst all day long. (basically takes chapter 2, shakes it's hand and says GG) with Amulet and magic hat he can fire the DG cannon 5 times. You can basically skip the first phase of the final boss just with Dart and a speed up. high balanced stats, arguably the most useful offensive dragoon, most useful additions throughout the game, and his grinding exploit in the forest can make him a murder tank throughout the entire first chapter. Granted, Rose with an HP buff is still better, but Dart is no laughing matter. | |
Dart's strength is that he's forced to be in the party, so he naturally gets strong because you have to put him to use (which therefore means he'll usually max out his MP first). For the same reason, he was given those shiny powers to use against the final boss only just cause he's the main character. If you grind any of the characters the same way you suggest doing early on, they'll be equally capable of tearing through stuff. Meru in particular is a special case. Other than that, he's not bad, but it's generally annoying that you're forced to use him. Haschel is more impressive as a physical attacker thanks to that speed boost and his elemental alignment advantage, Meru basically rips stuff apart with a maxed out Perky Step thanks to her crazy speed and its massive multiplier (not to mention has Dragoon party heals to boot). There would have been far more reason to replay the game with different parties if Dart's slot weren't locked in. | |
The person before me covered a lot of it, but I'd like to address each one of your points as to how Dart "outshines them all." Balanced stats are nice, but don't matter too much when you really think about it. For example, Sharanda and Meru can destroy bosses in a couple turns with magic. Them being frail can get annoying, but really isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things, and having pathetic physical attack isn't going to matter when you are attacking with magic and vice versa. Dart gets divine dragon cannon for one major battle. Before that, Shana, Meru, Rose, even Haschel are going to do more damage with dragoon magic. Actually when you think about it Dart's additions aren't that great. Throughout most of the game, his strongest addition will be crush dance/ volcano, only 250% modifier, when Albert gets Gust of Wind dance very early and even Rose gets Hard Blade. Haschel doesn't get much strong additions early on but his speed makes up for it, and Meru can use attack items early on. Obviously if you seriously suggest grinding any character is going to be overpowered. I'm not trying to put you down but people are making their arguments for a reason. Don't just gloss over them. | |
BareknuckleRoo posted... If you grind any of the characters the same way you suggest doing early on, they'll be equally capable of tearing through stuff. . Hmm.. I can't think of any other instance in the game where you get to have just one character in an area that's balanced for 2-3 and delivers as much advantageous amounts of EXP, except fo maybe the two parts where you have Dart and Rose, but you still have Dart in there, and level exploiting rose is like giving a shark a bazooka. With Dart, with that one segment in the beginning of the game, you can max out double slash and volcano and by then you'll probably be level 7-8 in a part of the game where you're supposed to be level 3. By then you'll probably get burning rush earlier than you're supposed to, and by the time you get your dragoon, Burning rush will be giving you enough SP to have final burst by Drake, and trust me, one hit killing drake is probably the most satisfying thing you'll do in Chapter 1. Though I'll give you that the game may have had a higher replay value if dart was not locked in. Kongol Meru Miranda playthrough with no hp/mp/speed/mdf buffs. THE ULTIMATE DIFFICULTY. | |
merudragoonpooh posted... The person before me covered a lot of it, but I'd like to address each one of your points as to how Dart "outshines them all." Balanced stats are nice, but don't matter too much when you really think about it. For example, Sharanda and Meru can destroy bosses in a couple turns with magic. Them being frail can get annoying, but really isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things, and having pathetic physical attack isn't going to matter when you are attacking with magic and vice versa. Dart gets divine dragon cannon for one major battle. Before that, Shana, Meru, Rose, even Haschel are going to do more damage with dragoon magic. Actually when you think about it Dart's additions aren't that great. Throughout most of the game, his strongest addition will be crush dance/ volcano, only 250% modifier, when Albert gets Gust of Wind dance very early and even Rose gets Hard Blade. Haschel doesn't get much strong additions early on but his speed makes up for it, and Meru can use attack items early on. Obviously if you seriously suggest grinding any character is going to be overpowered. I'm not trying to put you down but people are making their arguments for a reason. Don't just gloss over them. Meru and Miranda have high magic stats and their items do more damage sure, but you still have to have these items. If there's instance when you run out, you'll probably rely on Dart and Albert/Rose for the rest of the damage. imo Meru's speed is more important than her magic anyway since multiple perky steps in a row>one of the 3 magic items you have in your bag. Besides, there are bosses where magic items aren't the best way to go. Like Faust. I think balanced stats, especially since Dart's lean towards being high, are ideal. If my party was Albert and Kongol (which it was the very first time I played this game) Dart would be the one throwing items, and high damage, while not as high as meru's, still gets the job done more than well enough. Furthermore, as I said, several bosses have unbalanced magic/physical defense, so it's good to have options. Double slash is one of the best starting additions and if you were just terrible at timing and you didn't want to use up your bracelet slot with UW you could probably go through the entire game with just double slash. Volcano starts and ends with high damage, burning rush and madness hero give very high SP, Crush dance is good for bosses, and even if it's just 250%, his high damage makes it only a bit less powerful than Albert's GoWD. The only reason I bring up Dart's grinding exploit is because it is completely exclusive to Dart. No other character gets this chance to get this much EXP with so little effort. And if you're going for an all additions run, you'll probably do this anyway. | |
"Though I'll give you that the game may have had a higher replay value if dart was not locked in. Kongol Meru Miranda playthrough with no hp/mp/speed/mdf buffs. THE ULTIMATE DIFFICULTY." Are you serious? :P You clearly don't understand how OP Meru and Sharanda are :P Meru for example can OHKO one of the optional bosses with 9999 damage, others she can 2HKO with 9999 damage - *SPOILERS* . . . . . . Divine Dragon Spirit for example, of course Belzac and the old wind dragoon as well, even Kanzas with more MDEF and the resistant wind element takes thousands of damage from Meru's magic. Sharanda too is capable of shredding through boss HPs with attack items, White Silver Dragon and Psyche Bomb X. She's not quite as OP as Meru but she's still pretty darn OP and although Meru has the best offensive dragoon with dragoon magic and dragon summon Sharanda's summon is also very powerful too with the bonus effect of a full team heal at the same time as doing very heavy damage to groups of enemies. White Silver Dragon is godly and in terms of sheer offence Blue Sea Dragon is even more so. Blue Sea Dragon is the best offence in the game before Divine Dragon Cannon and Haschel's powered up Destroyer Mace but you can get it as early as Kadessa without going overboard on grinding/training. Freezing Ring is also a godly little spell, it's half a Blue Sea Dragon and half a Blue Sea Dragon is still good - Freezing Ring alone can do up to 5000 (4999) under optimum conditions vs the aforementioned bosses above. Blue Sea Dragon + Freezing Ring x 2 or Blue Sea Dragon + Freezing Ring + White Silver Dragon combo = boss ded overkill style. Also unlike other characters Meru and Sharanda don't require serious overkill grinding in terms of Levels to reach obscene levels of damage. Power levelling them only makes them even more broken :P No offence but yeah. --- Official "Vanille" of the Dissidia Duodecim boards | |
Ladysoalluring posted... "Though I'll give you that the game may have had a higher replay value if dart was not locked in. Kongol Meru Miranda playthrough with no hp/mp/speed/mdf buffs. THE ULTIMATE DIFFICULTY." Are you serious? :P You clearly don't understand how OP Meru and Sharanda are :P Meru for example can OHKO one of the optional bosses with 9999 damage, others she can 2HKO with 9999 damage - *SPOILERS* . . . . . . Divine Dragon Spirit for example, of course Belzac and the old wind dragoon as well, even Kanzas with more MDEF and the resistant wind element takes thousands of damage from Meru's magic. Sharanda too is capable of shredding through boss HPs with attack items, White Silver Dragon and Psyche Bomb X. She's not quite as OP as Meru but she's still pretty darn OP and although Meru has the best offensive dragoon with dragoon magic and dragon summon Sharanda's summon is also very powerful too with the bonus effect of a full team heal at the same time as doing very heavy damage to groups of enemies. White Silver Dragon is godly and in terms of sheer offence Blue Sea Dragon is even more so. Blue Sea Dragon is the best offence in the game before Divine Dragon Cannon and Haschel's powered up Destroyer Mace but you can get it as early as Kadessa without going overboard on grinding/training. Freezing Ring is also a godly little spell, it's half a Blue Sea Dragon and half a Blue Sea Dragon is still good - Freezing Ring alone can do up to 5000 (4999) under optimum conditions vs the aforementioned bosses above. Blue Sea Dragon + Freezing Ring x 2 or Blue Sea Dragon + Freezing Ring + White Silver Dragon combo = boss ded overkill style. Also unlike other characters Meru and Sharanda don't require serious overkill grinding in terms of Levels to reach obscene levels of damage. Power levelling them only makes them even more broken :P No offence but yeah. at what level does freezing ring ever do that much damage? and 9999 damage? sure if you grind for a LONG time, but if you just play through with them without leveling you'd do lots of damage sure but not NEARLY that much and you run the risk of being wrecked by hard hitting bosses. I'm lvl 33 with Meru and no item has ever done that much damage, not even psych-bomb-x with a powerdown boost. | |
Meru, Dart and Miranda are L33, L33 and 32 on one of my current active files and L34, L34 and L34 on another. I have two files, one is a normal no restrictions run/file with those three and another is a magic and items only - no additions file. For the latter equipment which gives SP while attacked or upon getting a turn and/or Spirit Potions are used to obtain SP. On both files I am at the end of the game, before heading to the Moon. I actually went ahead and completed the game on my magic/items only file but I had a back up save for fighting Faust, which is what I'm preparing for there. On my normal file with those three I am also preparing to fight Faust, just working towards Perky Step and Blazing Dynamo atm :) I've already fought all the other optional bosses including those at the towers at Vellweb and in Mayfill on both files. Vs the first dragon spirit there - Meru w/th MAG boosters + Power Up + Power Down + Dragoon Special + Blue Sea Dragon - 9999 OHKO Vs the DD spirit using the above - 2 x 9999 Vs Belzac on my magic/items only file with the above but using Freezing Ring instead of Blue Sea Dragon - 5000~ Blue Sea Dragon is 400% ST, Freezing Ring is 200% ST, Freezing Ring does around half the damage Blue Sea Dragon does, thus once BSD is hitting for 9999, Freezing Ring is hitting for 5000~ (4999) :) On both these files at lower Levels this team absolutely destroyed the Super Virage and the Grand Jewel at Kadessa. Super Virage before it even had a turn/began it's countdown and Grand Jewel before it could abuse the Dragon Block Staff or heal. That's right Meru and Miranda absolutely owned the Grand Jewel with dragon summons before it could do anything about it. They didn't give a damn about the Dragon Block Staff, that's how OP they are :P With Meru and Sharanda on a normal, no restrictions file but also a normal no power levelling/over grinding file there are no hard hitting bosses because Meru and Sharanda utterly destroy fights before opponents even get a turn or even have time to think about becoming a hard hitting fight. They don't come close to Meru and Sharanda's potential power. Meru + Dragon Helm/Magical Hat/Legend Casque (for MAG boost) + Magical Ring + Dragon Special + Blue Sea Dragon does more damage than a base Psyche Bomb X btw unless Psyche Bomb X is boosted to max %. --- Official "Vanille" of the Dissidia Duodecim boards | |
Dart signs a contract with SCEI prior to the release of the game to let him be in the party at all times or he'll bury the others. SCEI letting him have his own way was a mistake and doesn't sit well with others. Haschel and Kongol was pretty upset about it. | |
Even though I've played this game a good 15 or so times, what is Dart's grinding exploit in the forest? Is it just maxing out Double Slash and Volcano, and I guess possibly Burning Rush? --- Standing on the corner of Stuart and the Avenue Ripping up my transfer and a photograph of you |
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