SO what do you really think of Suikoden 1 now that the series is where it's at?

#1stank_bucketPosted 3/30/2009 5:47:36 PM
I started with Suik2 and 1 at the same time, and I always say how great 2 is, but I finally played through 1 with the intent to play the Suikoden games in order, and pass on my save files.

Anyway, I must have just been too young, but Suikoden 1 is pretty good. I still enjoy a lot of it, and I'll need to play though Suik2 just to try to compare them in a timely fashion for once. I've also played many rpgs since I first played them, and I think it helps to look back at these games when not being a "kid" for once.

I guess I just was wondering because there are a lot of people up in arms about the newest Suikoden being on DS and in an alternate storyline/world. I intend to get a DSi and the game because I enjoy Suikoden, but I did skip out on part 4 and Suikoden Tactics because I was a bit turned off with part 3.

I did enjoy part 5 a lot, and I hope if 6 is made, it is similar to 5, because to me, 5 felt like what I thought 3 would be after being so into parts 1 and 2.

Do you think Suikoden Tierkreis was a good route to go? Do you hope 6 holds with the somewhat connected storyline of 1-5? Also, how do you feel about Suikoden 1 now that the series has progressed this far? I notice some gfaqs reviews say it doesn't quite make the jump into a "good rpg" and that it is a "generic game." I can't say I agree with this, but it's hard to take the writer of the review "Konami's first try at an RPG- DEFINATELY not two thumbs up!" when he can't spell definitely.
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#2donutbandit0Posted 3/30/2009 8:34:45 PM
Suikoden is a very good RPG - one of the first to come out for the Playstation. All the elements of the Suiko world were in place - the castle, recruiting, 108 stars, Viki, Jeane, etc.

Suikoden 2 was better, because it was longer, had a deeper story, and a much improved way to handle items. Mini games were introduced.

I don't know why you don't like S3, because I love it. It does a wonderful job of getting you immersed in the entire story - it's not just them against us, because sometimes you ARE them.

I haven''t played the others yet.

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#3Duke DarkwoodPosted 3/31/2009 12:07:45 AM
Also, how do you feel about Suikoden 1 now that the series has progressed this far? I notice some gfaqs reviews say it doesn't quite make the jump into a "good rpg" and that it is a "generic game."

The problem is, if I were to look at it objectively, that actually wouldn't be too far off.

Now, don't get me wrong. I, personally, love the game. I have yet to play a Suikoden I don't think highly of (even 4!). (Can't opine on Tierkreis yet; too many games came out recently, so it has to wait in line.) Indeed, Suikoden was one of the first PlayStation RPGs I've played - before the gargantuan behemoth (FF7, of course). It hooked me from the get-go, and I can't say as many games manage that anymore - the "introduction" segment of RPGs these days seems to be longer than ever before things start picking up.

But, if I were to be perfectly objective about the game, it would only be "good". Still above "average", but not quite enough to be "great". Or, at most, borderline between "good" and "great". Probably a 7.5 on the scale, much as it hurts me to actually say so.

In the Suikoden series alone, the only game I'd rank lower would be 4 (a 6.5, square in the middle of the "good" tier as opposed to the high end of it). 2, 3, 5, and even Tactics all do better.

Now, if it were story alone, this game would still be great - indeed, it's something that sets this series apart; I think all Suikoden stories are phenomenal. But story alone isn't everything. Even if I were to ignore the technological stuff (sound and graphics), there are things it leaves to be desired. The short duration, for one. The gameplay, for another -- S1's gameplay really hasn't aged very well, and is a main part of what holds it back. It's not bad - the game isn't rendered unplayable - but it's not effortless, either.

I hate to have to say such things about a game I love, but in the context of the question you asked, I can't let nostalgia blind me.
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#4davinfectedPosted 3/31/2009 6:23:59 AM
I've been a suikoden fan since the first one came out in the UK, and I actually think Tierkreis is an incredible game.
So what if it doesn't continue the main series?
Its really an alternative approach to the 108 stars myth (Tierkreis is the German word for Zodiac)
Instead of runes, the characters receive "Marks of the Stars" which are magical powers granted by the stars, channelled through ancient powerful artifacts.
The story is very confusing, but it is a real epic. More fantasy than war story. I don't know what these reviews are saying about it being a short-lived adventure, because I've been playing for over 50 hours and still haven't finished. There are many side quests involved (I'm glad they've brought back the guild quest feature from tactics) and every character has been nicely fleshed out. I don't think I've met anyone in this game who just says "oh I'm out of work, what am I gonna do.... What you've got a castle? Oh thanks, I'd love to join" Tierkreis goes deeply into what every character thinks and feels about the situation.
So Tierkreis may not be Suikoden as we've come to know it, but its still a decent game. Don't be discouraged by the cry-babies who have slagged it off.
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#5CloudSith5060Posted 3/31/2009 12:08:22 PM
When I first played it, I was like "omfg this is the best game ever."

Today, as I'm sitting here playing it again for the 100th time, I'm thinking "omfg this is still my favorite game."
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#6GwendalPosted 3/31/2009 1:13:54 PM
The original Suikoden is still one of my favourite RPGs, and I still prefer it to the rest of the series, except maybe 3. I know S2 is better objectively, but it never had the same charm and "feel" to me, and I like S1`s cast much better. Yes, the gameplay is a bit crap, with the rune and inventory limitations and all, and the translation sucks, but I can easily put up with it. The basic battle system is solid, though, even if it`s probably a bit on the easy side (like the rest of the series).

Now I`ve been positive for a bit, time for some negativity...:P

Do you think Suikoden Tierkreis was a good route to go? Do you hope 6 holds with the somewhat connected storyline of 1-5?

No, absolutely, definitely not, so I`m afraid I`m one of the "crybabies" referred to by the above poster. To me, it feels like Konami have lost all faith in the series, and decided to completely reboot it, just keeping the name to draw in a few old fans for extra sales. The worst thing about this, IMO, is that the reason for S5`s bad sales was that S4 was so lame. not that there was anything wrong with the classic Suikoden formula used by S5.

From what I can tell, they`ve pretty much removed everything that makes it a Suikoden, the most important being the Suikoden world itself. Adding insult to injury, interviews with the creators give the firm impression that if there`s any future Suikoden games, they`ll be based on the Tierkreis universe instead of the proper Suikoden world. If Konami wanted to make a new RPG series, that`s fair enough, but they could have just done that and let the Suikoden series rest in peace IMO. S5 was a great return to form after 4, so it`d have been a fine note to end it on.

Note that this doesn`t mean I think the actual game is bad, though. I`ve never played it, I freely admit that, and it could be a great RPG for all I know. It seems like a pretty lousy Suikoden, though, and I strongly dislike the direction Konami seem to be taking the series. There`s also a lengthy discussion about this on the RPGs: Everything Else board in the "Tierkreis is awesome" topic, where I`ve made a lot of the same arguments and you can see some responses.
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#7stank_bucket(Topic Creator)Posted 4/1/2009 10:06:18 AM
I know it is discussed on other boards... I just wanted to get responses from people who were more likely to "grow up" with Suikoden... or at least play it from the start, rather than attack the older fanbase for not enjoying Tierkreis.

Very good points though, and that's disappointing 5 sold poorly, I felt that it really was a good return to form. I skipped out on part 4 because of the bad stuff I heard, and i was pretty let down with 3 overall, so I was a bit skeptic about 5, but I was really glad I got it.

Cool, thanks for the posts guys.

I'm not saying the DS Suikoden is poor, it's one of the main reasons I'm getting a DSi this week, I just hope that the series does get closure, or at least expanded on in addition to a handheld series that may come out of Tierkreis.
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#8davinfectedPosted 4/1/2009 10:11:39 AM
One complaint I do have about later games (this goes for Tierkreis AND Tactics) is the unneccessary change in music everytime you visit a shop. Its bloody annoying and off-putting, and I think its probably abusive to the ears to have these different tracks jumping in every 5 seconds.
Its just fine in games where you visit a town and it just keeps the same tune going the whole time.
Tierkreis really took the piss, as the music changes even when you bring up the party menu and when you stay at inns or use the transfer orb. And it spoils a lot of the background music, which is very enjoyable.

Note to Konami: whatever you do with the next Suikoden game, DON'T add menu or shopping music.
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Pablo should seriously give Katarina a good seeing-to.
#9stank_bucket(Topic Creator)Posted 4/1/2009 9:49:51 PM

Note to Konami: whatever you do with the next Suikoden game, DON'T add menu or shopping music.


really? well that sucks, menu music? lol

there are so many tracks that are truly great in Suikoden 2 and 5, I can only imagine how annoying it would be to have a great tune like greenhill, muse or south window, actually, the castle themes, every time a menu pops up.

and i'm sure it's just as annoying for tierkreis, i've heard some music and it's good, i wouldn't want it interrupted either
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#10dtn2Posted 4/2/2009 1:02:30 PM

stank_bucket posted...
I've also played many rpgs since I first played them, and I think it helps to look back at these games when not being a "kid" for once.


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" Liberals like learning, are more open minded, more respectful, more tolerant, more progressive." DarthPalpRules87