The grid system is superior and fits the series

#1Cold NRGPosted 7/6/2012 5:15:23 PM
The grid-style movement system was the main gripe of the first TR games, but in contrast it was the essence of the franchise. This is irrefutable.

I'd like to see the series go back to the "tank controls" because I know it's more than that. It's about making precise jumps that require strategy, thought, patience, and even a bit of daring to pull off. This can't happen otherwise. Holding my hand though a jump is not fun and challenging at all. If I wanted that I'd play Drake's Fortune or Indiana Jones for the Xbox.

It's a tad intriguing that those who weren't fans of the series were responsible of the inevitable change that would take place thus turning the series into a new animal. Core was forced out and the core gameplay mechanic disappeared. I'll never buy a future Raider because the publisher will only see my thoughts as a devolution.
#2SiReNz wAiLPosted 7/7/2012 6:00:26 AM
The gird system was perfected in TR2, which is fine for 1997. The main difference between the two types of movement is now Lara does not have to do superhuman feats of agility and strength to make it through the layout.

Core was forced out because they pissed around for 3 years after the substandard Chronicles and crapped out AoD, one of the best games plot-wise but terribly executed and full of fun-draining bugs and glitches. If you want an accurate summary of Core's progress throughout the original series, check out Lara's boobs. Triangles to polygons and eventually physical movement. If they weren't focused on pouring out games every year there may have been more than a few cosmetic adjustments and one or two new moves.

And even then when they did have major improvements they could manage to screw up something else. Last Revelation is a great game and good improvement over TR3 in terms of gameplay and story. But no level select pisses me off to no end.
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#3SpiralDriftPosted 7/10/2012 11:48:10 AM
I agree with the TC 100%. I hated the change for all the same reasons.

Tomb Raider, maybe more than most other franchises, has suffered from the easification (it can be a word o.o) of video games. They added auto-grabs and mid-game hand-holding sessions whereas all the help you got in the originals were the tutorial levels. One mistake in the originals and you were dead, though it was always, always your own fault. This actually made it exciting when you were up on a ledge or something. I always got that uneasy feeling in my gut on those parts. It was exciting. Not once did I get that feeling in any of the later games.

I'd love it if they made another game in the classic TR style, but the chances of that happening now are next to nothing. I guess it's a good thing they gave us the level editor with the last entry of the original series. I think people are still releasing original content for that...
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Do unto others what your parents did to you.
#4Patient VlakoradosPosted 7/12/2012 3:19:02 AM
SpiralDrift posted...
I always got that uneasy feeling in my gut on those parts. It was exciting. Not once did I get that feeling in any of the later games..

I feel the same way, but I think that is at least partially due to the save systems in the early games. A jump across a broken bridge over a bottomless chasm when you haven't saved in the last ten minutes? Yikes. That was cool 15 years ago when I was younger and more forgiving of unfriendly game design, but now? Honestly, I don't know if I have the patience to play a game that unfriendly these days.
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The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not mov'd with concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, stratagems and spoils. - The Merchant of Venice
#5SpiralDriftPosted 7/14/2012 5:43:42 AM
There's still somewhat of a demand for challenging games today, so I'm not sure if difficulty is the main issue. TR2 let you save anywhere but still had all that gut-wrenching magic just the same.

I think at its core Tomb Raider was about being completely on your own in some isolated locales, but still managing to survive. They abandoned the isolation part of it after Chronicles (or TR:IV, I'm not sure myself) and this entirely changed the feel of the series. It was just a lot of things at once. They added tons of NPC's, people harping in Lara's ear at every obstacle, auto-grabs, QTE's, cut scenes galore and on and on, all of which took away from the very simple concept of beauty in isolation.

I think they could manage to create a challenging but fun TR today. And although I do love the grid system, I don't think it would be very accepted today. So that part would have to change if they wanted it to sell. That said, they could still make it challenging in other ways. And they could give us challenging but precise controls in other ways now, too. We don't necessarily need a carbon copy of the original series, only the formulas that made it work, and those formulas could be implemented in many different ways now.
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Do unto others what your parents did to you.
#6SpiralDriftPosted 7/14/2012 5:53:21 AM
One other thing about the controls, I think the "hard to master, but grace in perfection" control style kept me involved quite a bit more than the run of the mill analog style of the later games. Since you are 100% in control of Lara to a predictable degree there's less of a barrier between yourself and the game.
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Do unto others what your parents did to you.
#7Cold NRG(Topic Creator)Posted 7/18/2012 3:26:05 PM
SpiralDrift posted...
There's still somewhat of a demand for challenging games today, so I'm not sure if difficulty is the main issue. TR2 let you save anywhere but still had all that gut-wrenching magic just the same.

I think at its core Tomb Raider was about being completely on your own in some isolated locales, but still managing to survive. They abandoned the isolation part of it after Chronicles (or TR:IV, I'm not sure myself) and this entirely changed the feel of the series. It was just a lot of things at once. They added tons of NPC's, people harping in Lara's ear at every obstacle, auto-grabs, QTE's, cut scenes galore and on and on, all of which took away from the very simple concept of beauty in isolation.

I think they could manage to create a challenging but fun TR today. And although I do love the grid system, I don't think it would be very accepted today. So that part would have to change if they wanted it to sell. That said, they could still make it challenging in other ways. And they could give us challenging but precise controls in other ways now, too. We don't necessarily need a carbon copy of the original series, only the formulas that made it work, and those formulas could be implemented in many different ways now.


Yes, the isolation felt real -- if you didn't make it out, you're dead. The player always felt alone and dealt with a minimal amount of enemies and NPCs. So at the heart was an adventure game with shooter element, whereas now we see a shooter with no meaningful adventure.

TR2 was much harder than the first. So maybe the save-anywhere feature didn't make the game easier as much as balanced. Some of the jumps in TR2 were impossible difficult to pull off, and God bless the PS1 struggling to reset my positions hundreds of times!... Oh, and the snowmobile was a nice touch; I had lots of fun finding new ways to kill Lara.
#8Shotgunnova(Moderator)Posted 7/19/2012 7:11:21 AM
After playing the PSX Tomb Raiders, and having to learn the terrain and how the controls work spatially, I could never really get used to the dumbed-down stuff used in contemporary games. What detractors forget is that, while the controls can take awhile to get used to, after awhile they're second nature and wind up 99% less problematic. The controls don't radically different from TR1 to TR4 (and maybe Chronicles), too.

I'd be surprised if a TR game went back to the "hardcore" control configuration, though. =/
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Take me down from the ridge where the summer ends
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#9SpiralDriftPosted 8/7/2012 5:03:52 PM
Yeah, it's about as likely as them giving Lara pointy boobs again. :(

Still, there have been some cool fan-made levels with the Tomb Raider Level Editor. I played one a while back that was meant as a remake of the first game. I remember the graphics being not quite up to modern standards but still pretty impressive for the engine it was made with. I've been meaning to see what more might be available now since I haven't checked in a while.
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Do unto others what your parents did to you.
#10MMAN2Posted 8/9/2012 5:45:23 AM
If you want something modern that's along the lines of the original Tomb Raider in terms of controls that actually require learning and skill try Mirror's Edge, very little else about the game is like TR, but I think the controls are almost like a modern spiritual successor to the earlier TR's.

Like SpiralDrift said there are also level editor mods that are in many cases more huge and impressive than anything in the original games (although also frequently much more difficult).