Read this before posting for all story and DVD/UMD questions (Spoilers aplenty)

#41Ryu_Kaze(Topic Creator)Posted 7/2/2006 9:42:26 AMmessage detail
That’s not what I meant, what I meant was that statement you originally made about the original Sephiroth being “basically Jenova” anatomically still hasn‘t been explained. You’ve yet to provide evidence for your belief that the addition of Jenova cells to Sephiroth’s fetus made him “basically” Jenova. This is only supposition on your part.

I think it's a misunderstood supposition on your part that I said exactly that. What I originally intended to infer is in light of all factors, the Jenova cells are basically Sephiroth's body because they don't belong to anyone else and he uses them as his body repeatedly.

I have also since said that his original human cells were Jenova-fied, but that's made quite obvious by what we're shown.


If that we the case, don’t you think they would’ve added a “thanks to being composed mostly of Jenova cells” clause to the information about Sephiroth’s reformation?

No. Why would they? The statement was that his will allowed him to do it. Whether he could only do it with Jenova cell materials or not, he couldn't have done it without his will, and the emphasis in talk about Sephiroth is constantly placed on his will. Reiterating something we already know about Jenova cells wouldn't be necessary.


I just posted a link containing a picture of this Jenova. There is no silver hair in it.

Those two silver groupings of lines going down both sides of her face are hair:

In VII:
http://img437.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jenova0ew.jpg
In AC:
http://img462.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jenova22zk.jpg
In Last Order:
http://img400.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jenova38is.jpg


In my opinion, this would have more to do with Sephiroth’s immense will than how much of him is composed of Jenova, though. No matter how you break it down, what you are suggesting is that Sephiroth is a human consciousness in a Jenova-virus-mutated body, right? Well, Jenova must communicate with her severed cells telepathically, so it is with Sephiroth. His telepathic will.

That sounds fine, but still, what we see with Sephiroth is a Jenova-mutated body. The hair alone proves that.


No, the lifestream in the bodies of humans fought back against the Jenova remains because they were alien matter, not because of Sephiroth’s consciousness was calling out from them.

SOLDIERs had been carrying Jenova cells around inside them for years without such negative side effects. Geostigma was something new that wouldn't be happening if the status quo were the same as it had been before.

People's bodies only began perceiving Jenova's cells as an invader after Sephiroth was killed at the end of FFVII. Around the same time he came up with his plan to use Geostigma to convert the Lifestream. Something he could never have done until that many people had become infected with Jenova's cells. See the connection?


So simply because Sephiroth was acting through the “ghost Sephiroth” projected by the body of Jenova in FFVII, it wasn’t actually Sephiroth the heroes were dealing with?

It sounded like that's what you were suggesting: that Jenova cells may have simply been mimicking things, which would suggest that the Sephiroth fought by Cloud wasn't the real one (the one causing Geostigma and who had planned for it to cause the planet to be corrupted).


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==FFVII Ultimania Omega translations==
http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/final_fantasy_vii_ultramania_omega.txt
#42Ryu_Kaze(Topic Creator)Posted 7/2/2006 9:42:38 AMmessage detail
That the real him is no more is one of the basic plot elements of the story. All that remains are memories, emulations, and reincarnations of him.

Yet the real him was still active. He didn't stay in the Lifestream when Cloud killed him at the end of FFVII. He fought back and his will lived on, incited Geostigma, and subconsciously manipulated Kadaj, Yazoo and Loz (the physical manifestations of his spirit and will).

Hell, for that matter, the final battle of the game took place after Sephiroth was physically dead, yet if Cloud had lost that battle, he would very much have died. Even with his physical body in pieces, Sephiroth's will was still holding back Holy until Cloud defeated his spirit and sent him into the Lifestream.


The relevance is that Jenova and Sephiroth were, and always have been, considered two different entities in the FFVII universe, though working in collusion. That they are “basically the same” is merely an interpretation.

They can't work in collusion when one of them seemingly isn't in the picture anymore.


It states that he focuses through them. That means to hone in on, to exert a great mental effort upon.

Focusing does not mean exerting great mental effort. It just means concentrating/bringing into focus. Given that this is a guy who played with Cloud like a toy even while holding back the most powerful White Magic spell in the world (and continued to do so even after his physical body was reduced to bits), we don't really have reason to think that acting through Jenova's cells was any difficult matter for him. Or we'd really have to beg the question of why he does it all the time. If it was so strenuous, one would think it easier to just command the black cloaks to carry Jenova's remains instead of controlling them directly while bringing them to himself in his own form.


None of the above really conforms to the “status quo” of the real world, though, as there are no magical beings, no aliens (that we know of), and no shiny magical rocks.

That was entirely my point. Ordinary humans are portrayed like us.


If that were true, then all the members of SOLDIER, and Sephiroth himself would have mutated into monsters. You’re saying Jenova’s virus went in and mutated Sephiroth when he was an infant. Why then does his Jenovian anatomy still develop into that of a human’s? Doesn’t the Jenova virus mutate those it infects into monsters?

The fact that they didn't get silver hair like him tells us that it doesn't work the same on people who have already developed. I'm not going to try speculating on why that is, because we know next to nothing about it and have no ways to experiment with it ourselves due to the fact that it's a fictional matter.


We need to cut to the heart of this matter. I don’t want this to degenerate into two people endlessly repeating and reaffirming their view at each other. God knows there’s enough of that on the internet. I actually don’t think our points of view are that different. I think the answer to my question of what of Sephiroth was inherent in Jenova’s cells was the same as your’s: the mimic/mutation ability. The only difference is the pathway through which this occurs; you perceive it to be from Sephiroth to the cells, I perceive it to be from the cells to Sephiroth.

Well, I'd like you to address the matter of Sephiroth's hair and the obvious implications this has on our discussion of his DNA. Anyway, it sounds like much of what we've said is similar on some level, but it seems you're not giving Sephiroth's will post-FFVII the credit it's due.


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==FFVII Ultimania Omega translations==
http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/final_fantasy_vii_ultramania_omega.txt
#43Ryu_Kaze(Topic Creator)Posted 7/6/2006 6:53:34 AMmessage detail
Bump.


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==FFVII Ultimania Omega translations==
http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/final_fantasy_vii_ultramania_omega.txt
#44LegatoBluesommersPosted 7/7/2006 8:41:10 AMmessage detail
Not stickied yet, eh? Of course, being that this board is clinically dead, it may not matter much at this point.
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The only reason you're still conscious is because I don't feel like carrying you. - Jack Bauer
News Staff - SquareAMP Forums
#45Ryu_Kaze(Topic Creator)Posted 7/10/2006 8:06:49 AMmessage detail
Still nothing, Legato. I never imagined it would take this long.


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==FFVII Ultimania Omega translations==
http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/final_fantasy_vii_ultramania_omega.txt
#46LegatoBluesommersPosted 7/10/2006 9:14:33 PMmessage detail
I looked at the sticky topic over on SS. Two months and over 300 posts of backlog....that's utterly pathetic.
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The only reason you're still conscious is because I don't feel like carrying you. - Jack Bauer
News Staff - SquareAMP Forums
#47Ryu_Kaze(Topic Creator)Posted 7/11/2006 5:24:13 AMmessage detail
It is pretty damn mind-boggling. It's never taken that long before, has it?


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==FFVII Ultimania Omega translations==
http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/final_fantasy_vii_ultramania_omega.txt
#48LegatoBluesommersPosted 7/11/2006 2:42:29 PMmessage detail
Not to my recollection. My last update of the info topic took a month getting stickied, and I thought THAT was absurd.
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The only reason you're still conscious is because I don't feel like carrying you. - Jack Bauer
News Staff - SquareAMP Forums
#49VinCon01Posted 7/11/2006 3:36:58 PMmessage detail
I'm here. I don't know why I'm here, but I am.

I really have nothing new to add.


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==FFVII Ultimania Omega translations==
http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/final_fantasy_vii_ultramania_omega.txt - My sig until Ryu gets back.
#50he_who_is_not_uPosted 7/13/2006 11:26:53 AMmessage detail
bumb thanks i was wonderin who the hell denzil was