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How exactly does indestructible work?

#1King_of_GoatsPosted 10/31/2012 12:32:14 PM
I'm a bit confused on how indestructible works. Say I play Avacyn, Angel of Hope, if I'm understanding correctly it makes all my permanents indestructible. This would include artifacts, creatures, enchantments, lands, and planeswalkers. How exactly could someone destroy any of my cards then?
#2IceMage20Posted 10/31/2012 12:43:25 PM
Indestructible just means it doesn't die to combat damage or effects that say "destroy."

Stuff can still be exiled, creatures can be -1/-1'd to death, and permanents that are "sacrificed" are still tossed in the grave.
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#3CheckmateD1Posted 10/31/2012 12:48:55 PM
Well, lethal damage and effects that say "destroy" won't destroy indestructible permanents.

However, indestructible permanents can still be exiled and sacrificed. If an indestructible creature's toughness is lowered to 0 by an effect (like by a Dismember or Tragic Slip), it will still go to the graveyard.

Wither damage and Infect damage put -1/-1 counters on creatures, and indestructible creatures that are dealt that sort of damage still receive those counters.

If a Planeswalker is dealt damage, loyalty counters will be removed equal to the damage dealt even if it's indestructible, and with no loyalty counters will still go to the graveyard.
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#4GauRocksPosted 10/31/2012 1:27:28 PM
One thing to note: Damage does not lower a creature's toughness. Damage stays on a creature until the cleanup step and destroys any creature that has more damage marked on it than its toughness.

This is relevant to a very common rules argument. If someone does seven damage to Avacyn, they still need to give her -8/-8 to kill her. -1/-1 is not enough, because the seven damage did not reduce her toughness and she can't be destroyed by damage.
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#5King_of_Goats(Topic Creator)Posted 10/31/2012 2:21:10 PM
What about artifacts, enchantments and land cards? Are they protected by Avacyn, and if so, how can they be destroyed?
#6FantasyLogicPosted 10/31/2012 2:35:34 PM
King_of_Goats posted...
What about artifacts, enchantments and land cards? Are they protected by Avacyn, and if so, how can they be destroyed?


Yes, they are. They can't be destroyed, you'd have to bounce them or exile them.
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#7the_NGWPosted 10/31/2012 3:12:34 PM
King_of_Goats posted...
What about artifacts, enchantments and land cards? Are they protected by Avacyn, and if so, how can they be destroyed?


More or less the same way. Bounce, exile, sacrifice effects, etc.

Indestructibility is powerful, sure, but just like protection (even from everything ala Progenitus), it really isn't the be all end all of abilities.
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#8GauRocksPosted 10/31/2012 3:20:17 PM
FantasyLogic posted...
Yes, they are. They can't be destroyed, you'd have to bounce them or exile them.

Planeswalkers too, for that matter. Although in their case, it's much less useful, since zero loyalty puts planeswalkers into the graveyard instead of destroying them. But hey, if your opponent plays Beast Within or Dreadbore, it won't be able to destroy your planeswalker.

It's really as simple as "If the text of the card in Gatherer says destroy, it doesn't work. If it doesn't say destroy, it still works." The only exception to that rule is combat damage on creatures, which we've already covered pretty thoroughly.
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#9J DoggPosted 11/1/2012 8:08:00 AM
Seems like a place to ask a question I've been wondering for a bit. Would cards like "pillar of flame", or "Kumano, Master Yamabushi" deal w/ indestructible. I don't think so as it says "...would die, exile it instead.", but it's something that I've always wanted to know for sure.
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#10LostShadyPosted 11/1/2012 8:34:23 AM
From: J Dogg | #009
Seems like a place to ask a question I've been wondering for a bit. Would cards like "pillar of flame", or "Kumano, Master Yamabushi" deal w/ indestructible. I don't think so as it says "...would die, exile it instead.", but it's something that I've always wanted to know for sure.

Those cards just create a replacement effect for the normal process of putting of a card into a graveyard. Indestructible cards still can't be destroyed, so if an indestructible 2/2 creature was hit by Pillar of Flame, it wouldn't die or get exiled. However, if that creature was later sacrificed on the same turn, it would be exiled because the replacement effect from Pillar of Flame is still in effect for the duration of the turn.
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