Spoilers about Mandarin in Iron Man 3. I don't think you're going to like this

#121HannibalScottPosted 4/18/2013 8:58:23 PM
The real Mandarin isn't in the movie because the filmmakers saw the character as a holdover from a time when negative cultural stereotypes were more acceptable in American life, and they don't want to offend Asians.

That's why the Mandarin is played up as a fake, strawman caricature in the film.
#122The_nWjoePosted 4/18/2013 9:00:33 PM
CaptainKO posted...
Reaper115 posted...
<Let me say it agian, the American one was made first then the second was made later after the Asian screening. Ditto maybe done the same to Ironman 3, we don't know.


We maybe getting this version so nothing will get leaked. (Pirating)


Seeing as how everything ends up on the internet eventually and is available to the whole world (China included) , I am just suggesting that maybe no versions of this film will show a Chinese character in any kind of negative light. It wouldn't only cost Marvel Studios business, but also parent company Disney, who would not want to lose the market.
#123Slayer2111(Topic Creator)Posted 4/18/2013 9:00:48 PM
CaptainKO posted.

1) See below why isn't a poor argument.

2) Yes, because you do not know how this process works in Hollywood. It isn't completely straightforward when they make a movie. Often times, they make may make multiple scenes for one scene to see which is the best scene. Sometimes you see these scenes in the theater in one trailer and the next it's gets either edited or removed. Remember the scene in the first trailer of John Carter where he is walking with the princess? They were walking together in a room in a room with completely red fabric as if they were in the palace. This same scene was used in the final movie as the Thurn cavern with the back now changed. BTW, the sources you pull confirm nothing, but speculate.

3) You are aware they shoot several different scenes of the same same scene. This was done with Blade when Frost was suppose to a tornado of blood and at the end of Blade, Blade was suppose to face off against Morbius before the credits. Before were changed when the pre-screening audience dislike both. This change the plot of Blade majorly, especially for Blade 2, which takes place sometime after his stint in Moscow. Hulk had similar changes. (And possibly Scott Pilgrim) So if something isn't like in the pre-screening, they switch the to the alternative scene while leaving the deleted scenes for DvDs.


I don't think you understand. I grasp the concept of deleted/changed scenes. This is why they do test screenings. What happened last night wasn't a test screening. But let's say it was and now they are going to delete some scenes or change a few things with other versions of scenes they have filmed...

The scene we are talking about. The scene featuring Ben Kingsly being revealed as an actor is a plot point. It's an essential plot point because it sets up the main villain, the final battle, as the rest of the movie. They cannot simply decide not to include it unless they've literally filmed two completely different versions of the movie. That's nonsensical and you know it. Tinkering around and changing a scene with an alternative or deleting a scene to tighten up the narrative/pace
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JR looks like an Obese Potato
#124CaptainKOPosted 4/18/2013 9:06:41 PM
HannibalScott posted...
The real Mandarin isn't in the movie because the filmmakers saw the character as a holdover from a time when negative cultural stereotypes were more acceptable in American life, and they don't want to offend Asians.

That's why the Mandarin is played up as a fake, strawman caricature in the film.


Speculation...here's more speculation and theories...

- Mandarin is the real Mandarin for the American version and a fake in the Chinese version while the real Mandarin is a Caucasian villain.

- Mandarin is the fake Mandarin and real one will be introduce in a fourth sequel/reboot in the future for both audience.

- The default is true and the studios drops the ball in favor of the Chinese Market over the American market, alienating their American audience. (Which is stupid from a business stand point)

I can see the second being more true than the first or third speculation as it helps Marvel win over audiences in both countries without alienating them. Third one could make it or break the IM chain at this point while the first one could limit the sequels in Chinese and somewhat alienate Chinese audiences.
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http://captainko.deviantart.com/
#125Reaper115Posted 4/18/2013 9:11:46 PM
CaptainKO posted...
HannibalScott posted...
The real Mandarin isn't in the movie because the filmmakers saw the character as a holdover from a time when negative cultural stereotypes were more acceptable in American life, and they don't want to offend Asians.

That's why the Mandarin is played up as a fake, strawman caricature in the film.


Speculation...here's more speculation and theories...

- Mandarin is the real Mandarin for the American version and a fake in the Chinese version while the real Mandarin is a Caucasian villain.

- Mandarin is the fake Mandarin and real one will be introduce in a fourth sequel/reboot in the future for both audience.

- The default is true and the studios drops the ball in favor of the Chinese Market over the American market, alienating their American audience. (Which is stupid from a business stand point)

I can see the second being more true than the first or third speculation as it helps Marvel win over audiences in both countries without alienating them. Third one could make it or break the IM chain at this point while the first one could limit the sequels in Chinese and somewhat alienate Chinese audiences.


option one- they would've had to pretty much film two entirely different movies for this to be true

option two- If the real Mandarin is in Iron Man 4 nobody will give a **** because he's been advertised to death already for this movie. The impact is gone.

option three- the only one that makes any sense


and its pretty much impossible to reboot Iron Man without rebooting the entire MCU, which is something that isn't going to happen.
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Steve Holt!
#126CaptainKOPosted 4/18/2013 9:12:31 PM
Slayer2111 posted...
I don't think you understand. I grasp the concept of deleted/changed scenes. This is why they do test screenings. What happened last night wasn't a test screening. But let's say it was and now they are going to delete some scenes or change a few things with other versions of scenes they have filmed...

The scene we are talking about. The scene featuring Ben Kingsly being revealed as an actor is a plot point. It's an essential plot point because it sets up the main villain, the final battle, as the rest of the movie. They cannot simply decide not to include it unless they've literally filmed two completely different versions of the movie. That's nonsensical and you know it. Tinkering around and changing a scene with an alternative or deleting a scene to tighten up the narrative/pace


3) You are aware they shoot several different scenes of the same same scene. This was done with Blade when Frost was suppose to a tornado of blood and at the end of Blade, Blade was suppose to face off against Morbius before the credits. Before were changed when the pre-screening audience dislike both. This change the plot of Blade majorly, especially for Blade 2, which takes place sometime after his stint in Moscow. Hulk had similar changes.

The scenes were ALREADY MADE!!! It's not that they had to go back to drawing board, but they had a alternative scene already done in case the people didn't like it.

So if you watch the Chinese version and the American version, assuming they have two different versions made, then the version would feature completely different plot points. Again this happen with the 21 movie I just mentioned not to long ago. Completely two different plots and themes in the movie despite being the same movie.
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http://captainko.deviantart.com/
#127HannibalScottPosted 4/18/2013 9:13:00 PM
CaptainKO posted...
HannibalScott posted...
The real Mandarin isn't in the movie because the filmmakers saw the character as a holdover from a time when negative cultural stereotypes were more acceptable in American life, and they don't want to offend Asians.

That's why the Mandarin is played up as a fake, strawman caricature in the film.


Speculation...here's more speculation and theories...

- Mandarin is the real Mandarin for the American version and a fake in the Chinese version while the real Mandarin is a Caucasian villain.

- Mandarin is the fake Mandarin and real one will be introduce in a fourth sequel/reboot in the future for both audience.

- The default is true and the studios drops the ball in favor of the Chinese Market over the American market, alienating their American audience. (Which is stupid from a business stand point)

I can see the second being more true than the first or third speculation as it helps Marvel win over audiences in both countries without alienating them. Third one could make it or break the IM chain at this point while the first one could limit the sequels in Chinese and somewhat alienate Chinese audiences.


The only people this possibly alienates are hardcore comic fans.

The general, non-comic reading public, who are far more numerous than comic readers, are not going to care.

They don't know who the Mandarin is, so they are not going to care if the character is portrayed accurately to his comic book counterpart.

These movies are not meant to cater only to hardcore comic book fans.
#128CaptainKOPosted 4/18/2013 9:13:39 PM
The_nWjoe posted...
CaptainKO posted...
Reaper115 posted...
<Let me say it agian, the American one was made first then the second was made later after the Asian screening. Ditto maybe done the same to Ironman 3, we don't know.


We maybe getting this version so nothing will get leaked. (Pirating)


Seeing as how everything ends up on the internet eventually and is available to the whole world (China included) , I am just suggesting that maybe no versions of this film will show a Chinese character in any kind of negative light. It wouldn't only cost Marvel Studios business, but also parent company Disney, who would not want to lose the market.


Pirating is against the law in China (or so I hear) so that shouldn't be a problem and they wouldn't show the American version in China.
---
http://captainko.deviantart.com/
#129Reaper115Posted 4/18/2013 9:15:00 PM
CaptainKO posted...
The_nWjoe posted...
CaptainKO posted...
Reaper115 posted...
<Let me say it agian, the American one was made first then the second was made later after the Asian screening. Ditto maybe done the same to Ironman 3, we don't know.


We maybe getting this version so nothing will get leaked. (Pirating)


Seeing as how everything ends up on the internet eventually and is available to the whole world (China included) , I am just suggesting that maybe no versions of this film will show a Chinese character in any kind of negative light. It wouldn't only cost Marvel Studios business, but also parent company Disney, who would not want to lose the market.


Pirating is against the law in China (or so I hear) so that shouldn't be a problem and they wouldn't show the American version in China.


right, it's against the law. That means nobody does it. Ever.

*eye roll*
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Steve Holt!
#130CaptainKOPosted 4/18/2013 9:16:20 PM
Reaper115 posted...
CaptainKO posted...
HannibalScott posted...
The real Mandarin isn't in the movie because the filmmakers saw the character as a holdover from a time when negative cultural stereotypes were more acceptable in American life, and they don't want to offend Asians.

That's why the Mandarin is played up as a fake, strawman caricature in the film.


Speculation...here's more speculation and theories...

- Mandarin is the real Mandarin for the American version and a fake in the Chinese version while the real Mandarin is a Caucasian villain.

- Mandarin is the fake Mandarin and real one will be introduce in a fourth sequel/reboot in the future for both audience.

- The default is true and the studios drops the ball in favor of the Chinese Market over the American market, alienating their American audience. (Which is stupid from a business stand point)

I can see the second being more true than the first or third speculation as it helps Marvel win over audiences in both countries without alienating them. Third one could make it or break the IM chain at this point while the first one could limit the sequels in Chinese and somewhat alienate Chinese audiences.


option one- they would've had to pretty much film two entirely different movies for this to be true

option two- If the real Mandarin is in Iron Man 4 nobody will give a **** because he's been advertised to death already for this movie. The impact is gone.

option three- the only one that makes any sense


and its pretty much impossible to reboot Iron Man without rebooting the entire MCU, which is something that isn't going to happen.


1. Not really again, the 21 movie was done this way and it's not hard to make alternative scene for this if they haven't done already.

2) Or you assume as much.

3) Again you assume as much. One a few people saw to what the rest of the public think is a total different story. Some people like Superman Returns while everyone else hates it.
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http://captainko.deviantart.com/