The Elder Topic XXVIII: Skyposts

#71SilentSerphPosted 2/17/2013 7:25:21 AM
It doesn't bother me that the characters are 13 year old girls, so much as that they are 13 year old girls designed to be sex fantasies for 16 year old boys.
#72darkrpgerPosted 2/17/2013 7:55:26 AM
SilentSerph posted...
It doesn't bother me that the characters are 13 year old girls, so much as that they are 13 year old girls designed to be sex fantasies for 16 year old boys.

I wouldn't say that they're *designed* to be that...instead...I'd say that everyone would interpret/see them from their own perspective - and the ones who are seeing it from an "attractive sexual fantasy" perspective, well, they'd obviously have problems enough of their own.

I like playing some of these games -and- I'm not seeing any of these girls as any type of sexual fantasy material at all...as a matter of fact -since you mention 16-year olds - even at 16, I wouldn't have looked to girls in video games for my sexual fantasy material; and I'd guess that most of today's 16-year old's fantasies are *still* more focused on *real* girls/women today as they were when I was that age.

I guess it depends *A LOT* on what you go into playing a game looking for...I suspect that if you've seen/heard enough people say that imaginary, cartoon-ish images of teen-age girls in games is sexual fantasy for deviants - that you'll see them exactly that way as you play the game, however, I also strongly suspect that if you're (like myself), a grown-ass man (who's not a pedophile/attracted to kiddies), comfortable & secure enough in your own sexuality to realize that:

A). If I'm playing the game alone, or

B). If there's others present while I'm playing the game

The topic, thoughts, and/or ideas of anyone will never even come *close* to "Kenny's a pedophile" -or- (unless they've seen/heard it somewhere before), not one single person that I know irl...would ever even come close to making the 'connection' that what they're seeing on the screen is sexual (in any way), at all.

Only gamers w/ strong senses of (over)-generalizations & pre-conceptions (IMHO) would associate these games w/ anything sexual...to the rest of the world -

- sometimes a game is just a game,

- sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and

- sometimes a pickle is just a pickle (or old cucumber - which is still, just a cucumber).

Leave it to gamers (obviously, not all of 'em) to go out of their way to try & find something wrong, perverted, and/or deviant in something that, at face value to (the rest) of humanity is good, innocent fun :(
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#73DavzzPosted 2/17/2013 8:34:10 AM
Up to the final guy in Yakuza 4 now.

Arc166 posted...
Saejima was mine and my relatives least favorite part. Both in and out of battle it simply isn't very fun.

Man, you weren't joking. The "move through sewers to avoid police" part kills all the fun out of the sandbox gameplay.

As far as the character goes... I think he has some good scenes and I like him. The post-deathmatch scene is probably his best one.

You may be dissapointed with the third guy, since he's a pretty boy. Don't be.

Darn, streak broken. Oh well, 3 out of 4 isn't bad.

Anyway, despite a pretty boy, I actually like Tanimura. The "can speak all Asian languages" is kind of an interesting character gimmick, considering that it sometimes feels like Japan doesn't know the rest of Asia exist.

Also, a game which allows you to play the CORRUPT COP? WHOAAAAAAAA!

Granted, a corrupt cop who is good at heart by funneling his ill-gotten gains into charity but still! Yakuza 4 is the game that teaches kids important life lessons: Corruption is okay if it works in your favour! That's a very realistic moral that every school should teach their kids, instead of that "BE YOURSELF" bullcrap.

Now, what I don't like about this chapter is... the REALLY stupid plot twists as you close to the end. Jeez, I like the game's plot when it's being film noir/detective fiction-ish, but they had to go and throw some soap opera worthy plot twists that would make M Night Shamaylan's head explode.

Also jeez, guns and bullets in this game totally work on the law of convenience. Characters die instantly with 1 shot when the plot requires them to for dramatic effect, otherwise taking bullets is just a minor annoyance that you can grunt off.
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#74k debonairPosted 2/17/2013 8:53:24 AM
From: darkrpger | #070
True...but since when did you need to *identify* w/ a main character to enjoy the game?!

I don't identify w/ the majority of mc's in the games that I play & like...

Identifying with the MC, as least on a partial level, is critical for me to empathize with the party and have an interest in what they're doing. But If I don't care about the characters or what the party is doing, I really have no motivation playing the game.

I wouldn't say this holds true for all rpg fans, but I think a lot of people on this board can agree with that.
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#75DavzzPosted 2/17/2013 9:57:24 AM(edited)
And yet... NONE of the Atelier protagonists ever have any sort of motivations as it relates to stereotypical teenage girl behaviour.

None of them talk about the latest fashion in style, none of them giggle about all the cute boys they seen, none of them go out and party and get drunk and do drugs. Their gender has almost no factor in the ongoing plot at all.

In fact, their motivations tend to be things like "I really need to pay off my outstanding debt", "I want to do something with my life and not be a leech on society" or "My mother went missing and I want to search for her" really aren't "teenage" troubles to me... they're pretty adult and gender-neutral concerns, really.

Not only that, but hey, if you're talking more relateable and empathic, while I certainly haven't lost a parental figure in my life, it seems to me like that is certainly more empathetic than "The elite commando soldier that I idolized in my childhood went nuts and is planning to drop a meteor on the planet, and I worry that I might be a clone or something."
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#76darkrpgerPosted 2/17/2013 10:18:43 AM
Davzz posted...
And yet... NONE of the Atelier protagonists ever have any sort of motivations as it relates to stereotypical teenage girl behaviour.

None of them talk about the latest fashion in style, none of them giggle about all the cute boys they seen, none of them go out and party and get drunk and do drugs. Their gender has almost no factor in the ongoing plot at all.

In fact, their motivations tend to be things like "I really need to pay off my outstanding debt", "I want to do something with my life and not be a leech on society" or "My mother went missing and I want to search for her" really aren't "teenage" troubles to me... they're pretty adult and gender-neutral concerns, really.

Not only that, but hey, if you're talking more relateable and empathic, while I certainly haven't lost a parental figure in my life, it seems to me like that is certainly more empathetic than "The elite commando soldier that I idolized in my childhood went nuts and is planning to drop a meteor on the planet, and I worry that I might be a clone or something."

Well said, Davzz!
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#77JunpeiIoriPosted 2/17/2013 10:26:39 AM
Davzz, I think Yakuza 4 may have been a poor place to start the series. It's the only one where you're given four separate protagonists. Granted, the gameplay hasn't changed very much, and that's a bad thing, but I felt the story was the weakest of the entire series.

But, I totally don't blame you for not wanting to go back and start at the beginning of the entire series. Even though the combat is a little clunky, it's actually worse in the first Yakuza but I think that game has the best story and a lot of care was actually taken in the localization of that game.

Did Yakuza 4 at least have little movies to get you up to speed? I didn't pay attention but I know those were present in both Yakuza 2 and 3, though they didn't do a very good job of conveying what had already happened.

I think Kiryu was always a really good protagonist, so I was exactly thrilled with how he was handled in 4.

I've been hoping Yakuza 5 was going to finally "update" the series, but I don't think that's going to happen and, frankly, I've lost interest in it if it's going to remain the way it is. What started out as something really fresh with a lot of potential, has now done what so many series end up doing, which is regurgitating the same thing over and over and over again.

Come one Sega, just make a new Streets of Rage. You know you want to...
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#78darkrpgerPosted 2/17/2013 10:30:34 AM
k debonair posted...
From: darkrpger | #070
True...but since when did you need to *identify* w/ a main character to enjoy the game?!

I don't identify w/ the majority of mc's in the games that I play & like...

Identifying with the MC, as least on a partial level, is critical for me to empathize with the party and have an interest in what they're doing. But If I don't care about the characters or what the party is doing, I really have no motivation playing the game.

I wouldn't say this holds true for all rpg fans, but I think a lot of people on this board can agree with that.

Eh, I think that we're probably just using different words for the same things...

I don't *identify* w/ *ANY* of the spiky, multi-hair-colored, angsty tweens that have been mc's in games that I've liked...

Like Davzz said, I don't *identify* with "Super Comando-Soldier" types...

Can't say that I can identify with being the Rip-Van-Winkle of Netherworld Princes/Overlords...

Don't have much in common with bad-ass Harmonixers who can transform into even badder-ass forms/beings...

...*BUT*...

- these are some of my favorite characters from some of my favorite games.

The 2 characters that (at this point) I'd be most likely to identify with - would probably be more of a Nier or an Auron :P

I like those games equally to the ones where I can't identify with the other characters, at all.

I guess that what I'm getting at is, that, if a game/story is well-paced & told, and if the characters are fun, interesting, and/or entertaining...I don't necessarily have to *identify* (or *BE* like them...or even...*Like* them), to enjoy, have fun with, and become invested in a game or its story.
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#79k debonairPosted 2/17/2013 10:42:52 AM
Davzz, I totally agree with everything you've said, and you listed some good examples, but I'm just saying that I can see how certain other players may not feel the same way.

From: darkrpger | #078
Eh, I think that we're probably just using different words for the same things...

I think so too.
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#80CreekCoPosted 2/17/2013 12:21:19 PM
Are any of you guys into astrology? What constellation are we currently going through and what's up with the moon cycles? I'm pretty sure someone here keeps up with that kinda stuff.

Going back through Record of Agarest War Zero a bit this weekend. I'm thoroughly convinced it's the weakest entry in the series, even though there's a couple of things it does really well.
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