Should being able to revive party members in battles be removed?

#1RixMaadiPosted 2/16/2013 12:39:51 AM
Or be made much harder to do, instead of just using an item or casting a spell.

It just always seemed weird to me on how easy it is to revive someone in RPGs. I never feel a lot of tension when my party members are dying, unless they're all at low HP and the boss is about to use an AOE attack.
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#2ridalnae_drachePosted 2/16/2013 12:49:56 AM
I don't really care, so long as the game is well balanced to accommodate its decision.

Granted, a lot of them do make it too easy.
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#3DavzzPosted 2/16/2013 12:52:45 AM
Depends on the rest of the battle system...? *shrug*

A lot of RPGs seem to be "balanced" (I'm using the term rather loosely) such that death in battle is quite a minor inconvenience, as if being "dead" is basically a status like Paralyzed or Petrified that you can cure.

Pokemon is one of the few examples where you can't revive mid-battle... IIRC (at least not in competitive play).

Well, if you make the change, you gotta make sure the rest of the battle system supports it.
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#4Armor King 108Posted 2/16/2013 1:33:22 AM
Off-topic: Hey, topic creator...are you, named after a Dungeon Palace in Ravnica!?

On-topic: It depends!
In lots of RPGs, it's not called DEATH, but, like, KO, Unconscious, or my favorite SWOON (from FF2 snes)
So, it's a lot like Petrifiy as Davzz said...
In some RPGs, revive items are EXPENSIVE and/or rare (see Dragon Quest series), and the revive spells in a similar manner, take tons of MP and/or are learned extremely late in the game...or have bad accuracy.

I'm apparently not too good at balancing it myself...in one of my RPG Maker projects, most bosses can be beaten if you have a simple revive ability or lots of revive items, which is kinda silly, but...maybe could be interesting if done right.

Some games do punish you for characters getting "killed". Besides extreme examples like Fire Emblem, the SaGa series usually has Life Points, every time a character is KO'd, you lose a LP, when you are out of LP, you can't be revived until you get to an Inn (I think maybe in some of the games you lose a character if they run out...) And in SaGa Frontier at least, if your main character runs out of LP, game over! In Breath of Fire 3, if you finish a battle with a character KO'd, it temporarily lowers their Max HP until you rest at an inn. But it's usually not much of a problem.

You know how in some games (like Dragon Quest) reviving a character is usually done in town, at a church, and costs money?? Well, maybe reviving a character in battle would require that. Like, say, you cast a teleportation spell on your KO'd ally, during battle, and their body is taken to a nearby friendly church or something, and then, well, a few turns later, they reappear in battle, fully healed and ready for action. Maybe you lose some cash when they come back...I dunno, could be an interesting mechanic.
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#5KrisenaPosted 2/16/2013 1:46:27 AM
I always thought of the status when you reach 0 HP and can't do any actions as being knocked unconscious. If you're actually being killed in battle, and then revived by a mere Phoenix Down, one can wonder why they aren't used when people die in-story. It's almost insipid to point this out, because it's just how things are in RPGs, but think about it, the game is actually asking you to segregate the gameplay from the narrative. How does this promote a good game?

The worst kind of segregation I've seen is in Xenosaga Episode I where you're basically trying to gather evidence for your innocence in court, but while doing it you're beating up the police in random battles.

Or in Xenoblade, where the narrative and the sidequest portions of the game are obviously pulling you in different directions, both screaming "LOOK AT ME, THIS IS WHAT THE GAME IS ABOUT", ending up with me yet again having to segregate gameplay from narrative in my mind for it to make sense to go around for hours killing wildlife while the world is in danger.

Do you blame me for not taking these stories seriously?

To get back on track: It's just a little thing, but I've been thinking about death and KO for the battle system I'm making, and so far what I've got is that if a character's HP is above, say 10%, that characters is fine and fighting fit. If it falls between 10% and 0, you're knocked unconscious, unable to perform any actions and your defense is reduced to Armor DEF, making you extremely vulnerable so that party members have to go out of their way to save you (as they should) from being depleted to 0 HP, because if you reach 0 HP, you're dead - which could mean game over, teleportation back to last landmark (alla Xenoblade) or perma death, all depending on what type of game I want.

Thoughts?
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#6Armor King 108Posted 2/16/2013 2:33:40 AM
Krisena posted...
I always thought of the status when you reach 0 HP and can't do any actions as being knocked unconscious. If you're actually being killed in battle, and then revived by a mere Phoenix Down, one can wonder why they aren't used when people die in-story. It's almost insipid to point this out, because it's just how things are in RPGs, but think about it, the game is actually asking you to segregate the gameplay from the narrative. How does this promote a good game?


I try and think of that all the time. It's one of my reasons not to kill off characters in my own stories, HAH! That way, the story isn't about yet another struggle of life and death, it can be something else entirely...The spell is called LIFE. Life is the opposite of death, last time I checked, not "being unconscious"... It makes things complicated...but I like a good challenge.

Anyway, I hate permadeath, but KO and Dead could be two different things. Like, maybe you can cure KO with items or spells (or something) will to cure Dead you need to go back to a place that can actually revive people, and "donate" them an exorbitant amount of money. Kind of like, what you were saying?
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#7Lord of NightmaresPosted 2/16/2013 3:54:01 AM
Depends on how it's implemented and how much more difficult it'd make the game in general.

For instance, I hated it with a passion in Hoshigami: Runing Blue Earth as the game was frustrating enough already even without such a feature, whereas I didn't have any problems with it in something like say Fire Emblem or Tactics Ogre: LUCT.
#8Arc166Posted 2/16/2013 6:14:52 AM
I like my RPG's easy tbqh.
#9zinformantPosted 2/16/2013 6:32:32 AM
You could not simply strip this feature. The game would have to be altered to make your party more difficult to kill, then, to make up for the fact that they could not die. If that happened, I would wager games in general would become too easy.
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#10BowtiesAreCoolPosted 2/16/2013 6:37:58 AM
Why?