Xenoblade - not for the ADD mind.

#11CloudslashPosted 3/30/2013 2:33:42 PM
That's because RPGs used to put quality into those side-quests in the form of more story or unique dungeons/enemies etc. Xenoblade's quests are just mindless fluff with no purpose other than to raise your levels.

And sadly, a lot of RPGs have been doing this lately.
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#12RX0megaPosted 3/30/2013 10:22:56 PM
Cloudslash posted...
Xenoblade's quests are just...to raise your levels.


And more games should do it that way. Beats the hell out of realising you're not strong enough to beat the boss and having to grind for hours and know it is grinding. At least the side quests give you a detour, a excuse to see more of the absolutely stunning landscape, and fulfill the need for exp.
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#13Very_SnappyPosted 3/30/2013 11:40:20 PM
RX0mega posted...
And more games should do it that way. Beats the hell out of realising you're not strong enough to beat the boss and having to grind for hours and know it is grinding.

Or they could, you know, make a game that doesn't require any grinding whether it's of the sidequest variety or the running around in circles outside of town variety. Eliminate the typical 20 - 30 hours of fluff most RPGs have and boil the game down to its core elements, making for a much tighter, focused, and streamlined game that can tell a much more coherent story and have far better game flow.
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#14RX0megaPosted 3/31/2013 12:01:42 AM
Very_Snappy posted...
RX0mega posted...
And more games should do it that way. Beats the hell out of realising you're not strong enough to beat the boss and having to grind for hours and know it is grinding.

Or they could, you know, make a game that doesn't require any grinding whether it's of the sidequest variety or the running around in circles outside of town variety. Eliminate the typical 20 - 30 hours of fluff most RPGs have and boil the game down to its core elements, making for a much tighter, focused, and streamlined game that can tell a much more coherent story and have far better game flow.


You know what you get when you do that? Final Fantasy XIII. Sorry, but I'll stick with games actually being games first and story telling second over story first and gameplay second. There are mediums that exist solely to tell stories, video games ain't one of them.

And besides, as I've already said I didn't need to grind in Xenoblade. Killing everything in my path, like usual, did the job.
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#15Very_SnappyPosted 3/31/2013 12:42:31 AM
RX0mega posted...
You know what you get when you do that? Final Fantasy XIII. Sorry, but I'll stick with games actually being games first and story telling second over story first and gameplay second. There are mediums that exist solely to tell stories, video games ain't one of them.

Haha, that's the first time in history I've been accused of being a story over gameplay person. That's amusing. I mentioned "story" once briefly, I'm not sure how you got "lolz go read a book if you want teh story" out of that. We were talking about needless grinding. You know, gameplay stuff.
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#16TetheallaPosted 3/31/2013 12:48:17 AM
RX0mega
You know what you get when you do that? Final Fantasy XIII.


You mean a good game? Yeah I agree.

but I'll stick with games actually being games first


Fairly certain it had a good amount of gameplay.

On-topic:
Yeah, the side quests killed my attempt to beat Xenoblade. I must complete them all. The completionist in me requires it. Which is a shame, because I wanted to finish the story.
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#17RX0megaPosted 3/31/2013 1:38:23 AM
Very_Snappy posted...
RX0mega posted...
You know what you get when you do that? Final Fantasy XIII. Sorry, but I'll stick with games actually being games first and story telling second over story first and gameplay second. There are mediums that exist solely to tell stories, video games ain't one of them.

Haha, that's the first time in history I've been accused of being a story over gameplay person. That's amusing. I mentioned "story" once briefly, I'm not sure how you got "lolz go read a book if you want teh story" out of that. We were talking about needless grinding. You know, gameplay stuff.


I got that out of it because you said to strip out all the unnecessary content and finished the point by saying so it could tell a more cohesive story as one of the big benefits. And having played games that stripped out all the "fluff" so to speak they generally suffer for it and become very much like an interactive movie rather than a game.

If I want something to tell me a story and get straight to the point with no detours and so on I'll just load up a movie and so on. One of the main reasons I hate this gen is because there has been a distinct shift from games allowing the player to set their own pace and placed the focus much more on shoving them through the game at the pace the creators decided on. Xenoblade allowed me to set my own pace, and at no times did I feel like I was literally grinding because of the way they had set up the side content. So as far as I'm concerned they did a good job there, and frankly I think more games need to take a leaf out of the Xenoblade book.

I will concede they went a tad over board with the sheer amount of it and thus it took on a filler like nature, but at the same time it also provided a good way to grind without feeling like it and also to explore the vast and frankly beautiful world they had created.

Also I would point out that Final Fantasy looks set to do so with Lightning Returns and is looking like it will put the emphasis back on gameplay and exploration, and XIII-2 started to do so. So clearly they recognized they went way too far with stripping all the "fluff" out and are putting it all back.

Tethealla posted...
RX0mega
You know what you get when you do that? Final Fantasy XIII.


You mean a good game? Yeah I agree.

but I'll stick with games actually being games first


Fairly certain it had a good amount of gameplay.


It restricted all the good options until near the end, by which point the story had become a complete trainwreck (though at least the bosses at that point were genuinely great fun, hence why I finished it). And don't even get me started about how they literally contradicted the entire message and theme of the game in the ending (fighting fate, which they not only failed to do but outright did what was fated, and then had to be bailed out by a plot device so poorly forshadowed that it might as well have been a Deus Ex Mechina).

And it had literally no exploration whatsoever. And while some people may say it opens up and gets good on Pulse, the reality is that all Pulse was was Calm Lands MKII with four tunnels leading off of it.

I'm not going to say XIII was a bad game, but I sure as hell expect far better from Final Fantasy. I do not expect a game dwarfed by multiple RPGs on the PSP and DS in quality and then trumped by a game on the Wii that was the ambitious project it should have been.
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#18shadowysea07Posted 3/31/2013 4:39:01 AM
I prefer having some freedom over to the forcefulness of games like eternal sonata and ff13.

though those games would of benefited if they had at least allowed control of the party and growth systems.
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#19ShinGundamPosted 3/31/2013 4:44:15 AM
shadowysea07 posted...
I prefer having some freedom over to the forcefulness of games like eternal sonata and ff13.

Freedom of what?
#20RygonPosted 3/31/2013 7:24:41 PM
Very_Snappy posted...
Or they could, you know, make a game that doesn't require any grinding whether it's of the sidequest variety or the running around in circles outside of town variety. Eliminate the typical 20 - 30 hours of fluff most RPGs have and boil the game down to its core elements, making for a much tighter, focused, and streamlined game that can tell a much more coherent story and have far better game flow.


No game is like that Snappy. Hardly any game "requires" grinding. It is not the standard for the genre and not a single game has 20-30 hours of it. In my worst case with some grindy SRPGs I'll give it maybe 5 hours.

Specifically in Xenoblade, since that's the target, I was always within the 5 level leeway except for two late bosses. I did no quests that took me out of my way, I just played the game and killed the monsters in front of me. I stopped to build a few levels for a little while after 40-50 hours of solid main path excellent gameplay.
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