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New low; Thom Hartmann blames George W. Bush and John Boehner for...

#21mizukage2Posted 7/28/2011 5:19:37 PM
when i hear multiple christian religious leaders trying to use the bible or jesus to justify killing of another person

Also, there was a world leader that invaded the Middle East because 'God told him to', remember that guy?
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#22AdiuvoPosted 7/28/2011 7:07:26 PM

From: Dante181 | #020He's equating a group that kills people, including civilians, for a cause (advancing US government interests) with other people that kill people, including civilians, for a cause (typically in opposition to US influence in their home region, though of course there's variation here). Fortunately, wally's being perceptive enough hear to recognize that state terrorism is indeed terrorism.

If you think that the US military does not engage in terrorism and that anti-US suicide bombers engage in suicide bombing for no reason whatsoever (an inane and nonsensical belief that ignores the reasons that organizations that represent such individuals give), then you're just buying into ridiculous propaganda rather than doing some critical analysis.


Regarding your first paragraph, the difference is in the degree. The US does not intentionally seek out civilian targets. There may be crossfire, but nevertheless the main target is enemy combatants. Terrorists, at least in this conflict, do target civilians primarily. Terrorism isn't simply trying to advance your organization's interests, it's using terror to do so. Where is the US intentionally causing terror for the Afghani people? Where are they rounding civilians up and executing them? Where are they attacking civilians? Where are they threatening them? The US fights against enemy combatants, not against the civilian population who, while they may dislike the US, overall leave them alone. It's rather sad that you can draw comparisons between what the 'enemy' does and what the US does to the degree where you can label their actions with the same name.

Obviously suicide bombers commit their acts with a purpose. Their reasoning however, is idiotic. You say that these bombers are done to be anti-US. Why then, are Afghanis the ones targeted? Why not US military outposts? Why are the resources not put to use making more IEDs? Their goal is more than just to get the US out, it's to inspire fear in the populace which makes them more susceptible to changes proposed by their organization, such as adopting their extreme branch of Islam among other demands.
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#23Dante181Posted 7/28/2011 9:49:09 PM
The US does not intentionally seek out civilian targets.

This is true to the extent that currently the US generally does not specifically seek out civilians to target. It does, however, engage in actions in which nothing at all is done to decrease the likelihood of civilians being killed, drone attacks being a prime example (http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/radio/2011/07/19/drones/index.html). Just as most reasonable people would agree that an al-Qaeda attack on a US military base in which a number of civilians are also killed would constitute terrorism, most reasonable people should feel the same about the US actions in question.

On a similar note, the US government has a long history of supporting both regimes that engage in terrorism (e.g. Saudi Arabia, Chile under Pinochet, the Guatemalan military junta, etc.) as well as non-state terrorist organizations (e.g. the Nicaraguan Contras).

The US fights against enemy combatants, not against the civilian population who, while they may dislike the US, overall leave them alone.

This is a rather unclear statement, as the Taliban (to use them as an example, since you've referred to Afghanistan) primarily draw their member base from the civilian population of Afghanistan.

Obviously suicide bombers commit their acts with a purpose. Their reasoning however, is idiotic. You say that these bombers are done to be anti-US. Why then, are Afghanis the ones targeted? Why not US military outposts?

The Taliban obviously do attack US military targets as well. Typically the Afghans targeted by the Taliban are those who are perceived by them as somehow challenging Taliban rule, whether through collaborating with the US or through some other actions.

Their goal is more than just to get the US out, it's to inspire fear in the populace which makes them more susceptible to changes proposed by their organization, such as adopting their extreme branch of Islam among other demands.

The goal of the Taliban is indeed to establish their own political and social dominance, one aspect of which includes minimizing American influence, and they do indeed utilize terrorist tactics to that end. I doubt anyone would dispute this, so I'm not sure where you're going with this.
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