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Sometimes I hate being a progressive

#21Anti_PhiIosophyPosted 8/12/2011 8:11:24 PM
OhNoPeppyHare posted...
Anti_PhiIosophy posted...
The point is bro, he will never fight for you, unless you own a very large and profitable business.

Me? I'll fight for you, every Communist will, you may not think we are, but we've got your back in solidarity.

It's a shame the term "Communist" has been demonized to hell [no pun intended]. People don't seem to really understand the term, I don't even want to admit I know what they fully stand for, but after reading the Manifesto for a class I've upheld the belief that the rich and powerful need to be regulated to a degree.


Then you sorely misunderstood the Manifesto.

I would sincerely implore you to read Das Kapital, if you want to, I have some of my notes on the book posted online, all the way up to chapter 14 to assist you.
#22GreenTreeClubPosted 8/12/2011 8:44:11 PM
Dylan Ratigan is not a progressive
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#23atmasabrPosted 8/12/2011 8:47:02 PM
Okay, you're almost too far to the left of me for me to even relate to. But I will try my best.

It seems to me you have two beefs. One, he's too rightist on foreign policy and other war on terror issues. I am not with you on that. It is widely believed that Obama dissents from his generals on the timetables for pulling troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan. This goes both ways--they exercise a pull on him, too. And Obama has withdrawn troops from Iraq. Other things you cite are things Obama hasn't even reversed himself on. You say he's in Afghanistan. Obama ran on pulling troops out of Iraq and focusing on Afghanistan, and that's what he did. You say he let the Patriot Act go through. He supported the need for a Patriot Act as Senator, even though he didn't like the version that passed (as below although I disagree with the source's conclusion)

http://reason.com/blog/2011/05/26/president-obama-has-a-much-dif

Your other beef, "2008 Barack Obama had the heart to get things done" is something I can speak to. Basically he's not effective at carrying out the agenda he believes in. Okay, so that does sound disappointing. However, progressivism is about a lot more than who controls the government. You are a believer in an ideology, a set of ideas about what is just and right. And you are or soon will be one of the leaders of your community--if you vote, it is so. People are watching you and listening to you. The things that President Obama has failed to do are things that you will have a chance to succeed at in the course of your day-to-day life as you respond to issues and controversies and interact with people. That is perhaps the greatest disappointment of "Yes you can." Together, you can elect him president. But can you work together with your president to enact social change and improve things for the better? The politicians cannot do this alone. That is why the Tea Party is more powerful than Big Labor.
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#24SirThinkALotPosted 8/12/2011 8:57:36 PM
Try being a libertarian sometime....right now we've got Ron Paul in politics...and thats about it. Theres Stossel in the mainstream medai, but even his show isnt very widely paid attention to....
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#25OhNoPeppyHare(Topic Creator)Posted 8/12/2011 9:20:16 PM
prezman posted...
Okay, you're almost too far to the left of me for me to even relate to. But I will try my best.

It seems to me you have two beefs. One, he's too rightist on foreign policy and other war on terror issues. I am not with you on that. It is widely believed that Obama dissents from his generals on the timetables for pulling troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan. This goes both ways--they exercise a pull on him, too. And Obama has withdrawn troops from Iraq. Other things you cite are things Obama hasn't even reversed himself on. You say he's in Afghanistan. Obama ran on pulling troops out of Iraq and focusing on Afghanistan, and that's what he did. You say he let the Patriot Act go through. He supported the need for a Patriot Act as Senator, even though he didn't like the version that passed (as below although I disagree with the source's conclusion)

http://reason.com/blog/2011/05/26/president-obama-has-a-much-dif

Your other beef, "2008 Barack Obama had the heart to get things done" is something I can speak to. Basically he's not effective at carrying out the agenda he believes in. Okay, so that does sound disappointing. However, progressivism is about a lot more than who controls the government. You are a believer in an ideology, a set of ideas about what is just and right. And you are or soon will be one of the leaders of your community--if you vote, it is so. People are watching you and listening to you. The things that President Obama has failed to do are things that you will have a chance to succeed at in the course of your day-to-day life as you respond to issues and controversies and interact with people. That is perhaps the greatest disappointment of "Yes you can." Together, you can elect him president. But can you work together with your president to enact social change and improve things for the better? The politicians cannot do this alone. That is why the Tea Party is more powerful than Big Labor.


[As for your first half, about Obama's failures/accomplishments I respectfully disagree still, but you do make valid points. And quite frankly I can't dig up citations in my current environment. I just want to envision Obama as a black Roosevelt and won't take no for an answer. I'd love a President that forcefully fought for his beliefs and even if he lost, I would still give him respect for trying.]

I want to say I can side alongside him, but it's just very discouraging when American politics has gotten so bad that even if things do improve under Obama, people will hate him. That's why I believe he can't do what he wanted to do before, even if his heart was in the right place. He just doesn't want to tick off the ignorant masses. Ignorance sucks.
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#26OhNoPeppyHare(Topic Creator)Posted 8/12/2011 9:21:24 PM
SirThinkALot posted...
Try being a libertarian sometime....right now we've got Ron Paul in politics...and thats about it. Theres Stossel in the mainstream medai, but even his show isnt very widely paid attention to....

Honestly, John Stossel scares the **** out of me. I like Ron Paul in some respects, such as his adherence to saving money, but his "hands-off" approach to everything just bothers me.
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#27atmasabrPosted 8/12/2011 9:35:28 PM
OhNoPeppyHare posted...

Honestly, John Stossel scares the **** out of me.

What? Did you even watch the debate yesterday?

"Let Iran have nukes! Everyone else is pointing nukes at Iran, maybe that's why they want them. My goodness, the Soviets had them once, and nothing bad happened."

Anyway, this "savior" business people keep asking for won't happen. People think of Bill Clinton too much. He had both charisma and political ability, which seems to be a rare combination. This country will be saved by a free exchange of ideas and people taking responsibility for themselves and their communities. Nothing more and nothing less.
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#28SirThinkALotPosted 8/13/2011 7:13:51 AM
Honestly, John Stossel scares the **** out of me.

Any particular reason? I like Stossel, but I always found him to be a bit soft on people he interviews(particularly if he agrees with them)

I like Ron Paul in some respects, such as his adherence to saving money, but his "hands-off" approach to everything just bothers me.

His beleif in savings is tied into his 'hard money' libertarian views. Hes an adherant to the 'Austrian' economic school of Misis/Hayak for whom savings and investment are the keys to economic growth.
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#29manny03Posted 8/13/2011 7:32:10 AM
So who are you going to vote for in 2012? Third party? Republican?
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#30Xenogears15Posted 8/13/2011 5:40:11 PM
manny03 posted...
So who are you going to vote for in 2012? Third party? Republican?

In my case at least, I can't vote GOP in its current incarnation. Most third parties' platforms don't agree with me very much, and the Democrats know it. That's how they'll get Obama in the White House again, and he knows it. I certainly can't let the GOP have the White House.
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