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Guess the Party: Senator sez Kwanzaa is plot to destroy America

#41KwancahiPosted 1/3/2013 1:48:27 PM(edited)
We're not talking about what you think is likely here. We're talking about objective fact.

I'm also pointing to objective facts. I said 'appear' because there is debate as to whether or not Chaucer invented Valentine's Day, or was merely reporting on a new tradition that he did not personally make up. Couple that with the issue of the abitrary reassignment of the date, I see no reason that you can call Valentine's Day any less of an abitrary, fake holiday save for the fact that there is debate as to which specific person first decided that it was a day that we should celebrate.

And you haven't explained to anyone why 'we can point to the guy who first associated these dates with this celebration' makes the celebration any less of a holiday. It is clearly an abitrary set of dates designed to celebrate a specific belief structure, like virtually every other holiday we can't tie to a specific event. I fail to see how it is any more abitrary than Christmas simply because we can't point to which specific Pope who finalized the offical date of Christmas.
#42AynRandySavagePosted 1/3/2013 1:55:05 PM
Kwancahi posted...

I'm also pointing to objective facts. I said 'appear' because there is debate as to whether or not Chaucer invented Valentine's Day, or was merely reporting on a new tradition that he did not personally make up.


Well, there's NO debate on the fact Chaucer didn't invent Valentine's day. It was celebrated for hundreds of years before. The debate is whether or not he invented its romantic implications.

With Kwanzaa however, there is no debate that it was all made up by Karenga.


. It is clearly an abitrary set of dates designed to celebrate a specific belief structure


Well, if you knew the origin of the holiday, you could actually say that. But since you don't, you can't.
#43CC RicersPosted 1/3/2013 1:57:36 PM
Kwanzaa is an American made holiday to celebrate black peoples culture, it's irreligious, has nothing to do with Christmas other than being celebrated around the same time. Just as bogus as saying Black History Month is destroying the US. But you know what, screw jazz music and screw black people inventions! That's not American!

On the topic of holidays it doesn't matter how localized it is. The Midwest has something called Sweetest Day around October which is basically a light version of Valentine's Day. I think it's lame and not many people in the US will have no idea what it is, but it's recognized in enough parts of the Midwest that stores sell cards around it.
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#44KwancahiPosted 1/3/2013 2:19:05 PM
Well, there's NO debate on the fact Chaucer didn't invent Valentine's day. It was celebrated for hundreds of years before.

I'm not saying he 'invented Valentine's day' in the literal sense. I'm saying there is debate as to whether or not he invented Valentine's Day as we understand it. I fail to see how that is any different than the abitrary assignment of Kwanzaa.

And you still have yet to explain why 'we know the exact origin of the Holiday' makes it any more abitrary than 'we know the origin of the holiday in the modern sense' or 'we know the origin of the holiday, but we can't put a specific date on when it was first celebrated'. Your entire argument seems to be 'it is a fake, abitrary holiday because we know who first made it up, but all these other days are less fake and abitrary because we don't know specifically who made them up' and you've yet to explain why that is the case.
#45AynRandySavagePosted 1/3/2013 2:23:50 PM
Kwancahi posted...
'it is a fake, abitrary holiday because we know who first made it up, but all these other days are less fake and abitrary because we don't know specifically who made them up' and you've yet to explain why that is the case.


It's a fake arbitrary holiday, because we can prove, irrefutably that its a fake, arbitrary holiday. We can't say the same for the others.
#46god_of_toastPosted 1/3/2013 2:36:53 PM
AynRandySavage posted...
Kwancahi posted...
'it is a fake, abitrary holiday because we know who first made it up, but all these other days are less fake and abitrary because we don't know specifically who made them up' and you've yet to explain why that is the case.


It's a fake arbitrary holiday, because we can prove, irrefutably that its a fake, arbitrary holiday. We can't say the same for the others.


Wow what straight forward simple logic! Totally not circular at all.
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#47IvynnPosted 1/3/2013 2:38:39 PM
TIL: Holidays can only be real if it's really old and we know the name of the specific individual who first invented it.

Except Mother's Day, Father's Day, Veteran's Day and Memorial Day. They get a pass for some strange reason.
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#48AynRandySavagePosted 1/3/2013 2:46:58 PM
Ivynn posted...
TIL: Holidays can only be real if it's really old and we know the name of the specific individual who first invented it.

Except Mother's Day, Father's Day, Veteran's Day and Memorial Day. They get a pass for some strange reason.


You're getting your strawman wrong. If you wanted to do it right, it would be "don't know the name of the person who first invented it"
#49AynRandySavagePosted 1/3/2013 2:47:21 PM
god_of_toast posted...
AynRandySavage posted...
Kwancahi posted...
'it is a fake, abitrary holiday because we know who first made it up, but all these other days are less fake and abitrary because we don't know specifically who made them up' and you've yet to explain why that is the case.


It's a fake arbitrary holiday, because we can prove, irrefutably that its a fake, arbitrary holiday. We can't say the same for the others.


Wow what straight forward simple logic! Totally not circular at all.


Skip the sarcasm and make a point.
#50SCAMaz0nPosted 1/3/2013 2:48:02 PM
Name which of these aren't made up holidays.

February 2nd Groundhog Day
February 14th Valentine's Day
March 17th Saint Patrick's Day
April 1st April Fools' Day
Sunday March-April (varies): Easter (easter bunny)
Last Fri in Apr: Arbor Day
Halloween: Halloween
Oktoberfest
November 28: Thanksgiving Day
December 25: Christmas Day (lots of presents)

Seems like a nice long list of secular holidays.
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