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I really don't understand the passion of gun advocates.

#41Anarchy_JuiblexPosted 4/24/2013 7:10:32 AM
wiretaps and transgressions are pretty dystopian. as are the blatant abuses of cops against ethnic minorities which has gone on for god knows how much longer than the militia movement.

We agree on this.

where's your revolution? what's it going to take?

Just because I'm in favor of gun rights doesn't mean I'm part of an organized militia, best case scenario from my perspective is lone wolfing political opponents or the police.
Dunno what it's going to take, what would it take for you? Or is there nothing, no limits for you? Why are you suggesting that I need to have less tolerant?

are you going to hand the hispanic and black oppressed guns to help you fight?

If I found someone ideological compatible, yes. But I'm no leader or quartermaster. They should* buy their own guns. Maybe they wouldn't be harassed or "stop and frisked" so much if they shot and killed a cop every f***ing time.
I'm not a conservative, I'm actually progressive, I just don't agree with them on gun rights.

you're all talk, no action. the fact that you basically post the same amped up rhetoric in every thread is just getting kind of funny.

*yawn*
Why should I be so quick to action when I'd be painted as a crazy a*****?
#42cancerstormPosted 4/24/2013 7:55:13 AM
YouAreCrumbs posted...
Sativa_Rose posted...
The Second Amendment exists to protect the right of the citizenry to own standard military firearms. Assault weapons bans and magazine limits are infringements on that right.

I have a right to own a fully automatic M-16 rifle with 30 round magazines, hollow point ammuniton, and whatever tactical attachments I want.

Sounds excessive, but that is exactly the right that the Second Amendment was meant to protect.


Why stop at an M-16? I hear the Army's AT4 rocket launchers are ****ing awesome, and the second amendment exists to allow us to own standard military firearms. I wouldn't mind getting my hands on an M82. And I'll need a few Stinger missiles to help me defend my land when the tyrant Obama sics his drones on me.

Also, it is tyranny and a complete desecration of my rights that I can't mount an M134 Minigun to my F-150.


this

what if our sovereign airspace is invaded by the koreans like olympus has fallen? every able man in this country needs to defend our home country from enemy combatants. every household needs anti-aircraft weaponry to prevent these scumbag communists from invading our country. obama is one step away from turning america into the soviet union. we need to be armed and ready to defend our free country from his disgusting communist ways. my neighbors and i should have the right to set up our own iron dome in order to prevent this tyrannical government infringing upon my greatest constitutional right.
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#43Sniper_BrosefPosted 4/24/2013 8:19:37 AM(edited)
nighthawk16 posted...
Look, I like guns. Guns are cool. I don't own one because I happen to live in one of the safest cities in America and I can't be bothered with the investment, but I go shooting with my friends at some of the local target ranges. It's a hobby I enjoy. They make you feel powerful, and there's a competitive flair that comes with gradually improving your skill, being the straightest shot, besting your buddies, honing your accuracy and precision till it gets to the point where you feel confident that with a gun in your hand you can surmount any life-threatening encounter. So I understand that aspect of gun enthusiasts. I can understand the hostile reaction one might have when their hobby, family tradition or what-have-you comes under threat of legislation.


It's seems obvious from the outset that you don't get the purpose of firearms since you liken them to a hobby and how they "make you feel powerful." You also fail to acknowledge that this is a right. Stating you can understand an adverse reaction to someone taking away a hobby/tradition/what-have-you is another sign that you don't get it, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Also... Straightest shot? I've, honestly, never heard this terminology in reference to guns, but that might be irrelevant.


One of my neighbors across the street has a collection of over a 100, and his enthusiasm isn't exactly a rarity. So the dude likes guns. Lots of people like guns. I like guns. But the next part is what escapes me, when he starts trotting out right-wing rhetoric about how their will be all out civil war and insurrection if the government ever comes for his guns, how the 2nd amendment is one of the greatest civil liberties in the history of mankind. What? Okay, so everyone has the right to defend their lives, their property, and their family, with deadly force if need be. That's pretty American, I'm down with that. But this is a guy whose never been a victim of violent crime, in fact doesn't even know anyone whose ever been a victim of violent crime. His passion has no rational justification, it completely transcends his love of the hobby, and becomes more of a fetish than anything.


So you agree that everyone has a right to defend home, property, and country yet, in the very next sentence you call this thought irrational unless said person has been a victim? Again you refer to this as a hobby and now liken it to a fetish?! I'm beginning to think you weren't looking for a discussion with this topic, but instead wanted to troll.

So maybe it's a tyranny thing. He wants that safety blanket, knowing if freedom ever bites it he and other Americans have some means to fight back. Except he is also a proponent of torture, warrentless searches and wiretapping, indefinite detention of terror suspects, etc. etc. The only freedom he ever really seems to care about is his freedom to own a gun. Everything else is incidental. And I don't understand that. His attitude towards gun control is zero tolerance. Nothing. Nada. No new laws or regulations. Ever. In fact, gun laws should be laxed, rolled back, restrictions lessened.


Yes, this is hypocritical. However, one person's opinion on the world is hardly an example of an entire group of people.
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#44Sniper_BrosefPosted 4/24/2013 8:16:34 AM
He's the quintessential, stereotypical "gun nut", as they are derisively called. And his ilk is everywhere in this country. People who talk about insurrection and rebellion as if they are eagerly looking forward to the day, who propose walled-off city states where gun restrictions are non-existent and gun ownership is a requirement. Who treat gun ownership as an act of patriotism, like it is your civic duty to own a gas-powered machine capable of firing small projectiles at high velocities. Cause that's all it is when it comes down to it. A machine, a tool that serves a very specific function. To intimidate. To kill. But their advocacy for guns extends beyond their love of its function, their need of it for their protection and safety. Because the vast majority of gun owners are not victims of crimes, nor are they guerrilla fighters in training. The vast majority of gun owners keep them locked in their house and only take them out every so often for shooting or hunting.


You're right, this is a stereotype and you're perpetuating it. This type of stereotyping is responsible for racism and only hurts our society by furthering the divide between two schools of thought. Also, I see your view of firearms is warping further and further into this post. Now a firearm is a tool to intimidate and kill? Is that why Police officers carry them? To intimidate and kill? Your bias is becoming apparent.


tl;dr there is a vast disconnect in this country between our love for guns, and the role they play in our daily lives. And it is beyond my comprehension. My suspicion is that when it comes down to it, if you strip away all the pretense and rhetoric, the bull**** about fighting the federal government in an unwinnable insurrection, or stopping violent crimes that are never personally encountered, the passion comes down to the sheer love of the power and security that guns offer. Often the illusion of power and security more than anything. It's a psychological need, not an objective or rational one. Does anyone care to dispute this?


I agree. There is a vast disconnect. However, it is not between our love for guns and their role in our daily lives. It is between gun control advocates and the second amendment. Not once in your post did you refer to this as a natural right guaranteed by the constitution. Instead you belittle this right to serve your position.
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#45Sativa_RosePosted 4/24/2013 8:30:43 AM
willythemailboy posted...
Bobberdong posted...
willythemailboy posted...
Sativa_Rose posted...
The Second Amendment exists to protect the right of the citizenry to own standard military firearms. Assault weapons bans and magazine limits are infringements on that right.

I have a right to own a fully automatic M-16 rifle with 30 round magazines, hollow point ammuniton, and whatever tactical attachments I want.

Sounds excessive, but that is exactly the right that the Second Amendment was meant to protect.


You might have to reconsider the hollow point ammunition, then. It's been banned from military use since 1899.


What are you talking about? I purchased hollow points not even two months ago.


They are legal for civilian use, including law enforcement. Use of hollow point or other spreading or explosive bullets in combat has been considered a war crime since the Hague Convention of 1899.


Yup, and I'm a civilian. Some silly Hague Convention on war crimes has no meaning or relevance to me.
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#46SaikyoStylePosted 4/24/2013 8:35:23 AM
Lol Sniper thinks he's John Wayne.
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#47CobraShuttlePosted 4/24/2013 8:37:31 AM
Jesus Christ. Sniper just decimated this topic. Mods lock this topic.
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#48chicagogr81Posted 4/24/2013 8:38:51 AM
I don't get it either. My theory is that owning a gun becomes their entire identity but I haven't exactly spent much time with a lot of gun enthusiasts to test my hypothesis.

"This gun cost me everything: my wife, my kids, everything but my precious, precious gun."
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#49SaikyoStylePosted 4/24/2013 8:42:50 AM
CobraShuttle posted...
Jesus Christ. Sniper just decimated this topic. Mods lock this topic.


Like he did to Jeff Corey in True Grit?
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#50DJStrongPosted 4/24/2013 8:42:57 AM
A very thoughtful post TC, I would not let you neighbor color your view of all gun owners, leave the word 'fetish' out of it as it diminishes your point, and there you have it. I understand your attitude but letting one man's view be so deterministic in your methodology seems unbecoming of someone whom seems to take care in how they express themselves (only going of of first post, if this doesn't seem to jive)

Having a gun to help in situation that would otherwise be uncontrollable is no small thing (frankly I fear for a Z-Day scenario, or a Katrina, heck I once did not have power for a week and a day)

Still I liked your post
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