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Air Force sexual assault prevention chief arrested for groping woman,...

#21Caer_DeathPosted 5/7/2013 1:11:35 AM(edited)
BornIn1142 posted...
From: Caer_Death | #019
Or they should follow the law and report the attack through the proper channels up the chain of command so they're not detained as terrorists?

Not that I agree with his overall point, but going "through the proper channels" for sexual assault is laughably ineffectual in the US military.


I know it's generally ineffective, and that's why so many rapes occur. The system needs to be thoroughly reformed. But suggesting that weapons can help in this situation is laughable (not directed at you). And there really shouldn't be anything laughable about actual cases of rape, whether for comedy or for a political point. No matter how bad things become, reforming the proper channels so they work in the future is the only acceptable approach. Until then, I'd advise against women joining the military until they know the statistics and the cause of the problem. Lack of enforcement and victim blaming are an embaressment in the military.
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#22TheBlackCat13Posted 5/7/2013 1:54:16 AM
Caer_Death posted...
Or they should follow the law and report the attack through the proper channels up the chain of command so they're not detained as terrorists?


This guy was guy was in charge of the "proper channels". If the people in charge of protecting women from sexual assault are committing sexual assault themselves, what hope do women have?
#23Caer_DeathPosted 5/7/2013 2:09:26 AM
TheBlackCat13 posted...
Caer_Death posted...
Or they should follow the law and report the attack through the proper channels up the chain of command so they're not detained as terrorists?


This guy was guy was in charge of the "proper channels". If the people in charge of protecting women from sexual assault are committing sexual assault themselves, what hope do women have?


Dishonorable discharge and put a woman in his place who's more aggresive on the matter.
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The circle of life was founded by the god of America. Love it or leave it!
#24TheCrock2k4Posted 5/7/2013 6:20:31 AM
Officers can't be dishonorably discharged. This guy will most likely skate on the charges and exit the service with full benefits. If he was enlisted they would hang him out to dry but since he's a member of the officer buddy club he'll be taken care of.
#25DJStrongPosted 5/7/2013 6:30:32 AM
This seems like something outside civilian oversight could help with, but I'm no military nerd so if this a bad idea I'm willing to listen.

For something as serious as assault of this nature having one man who can (and apparently was) be the point of failure seems illogical.
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#26RedcountPosted 5/7/2013 9:53:31 AM
Do you mind address my post, Redcount. You seem to be implying that if a law doesn't stop something 100%, it shouldn't be implemented. Is that what you're trying to say?

It's not something that applies to other scenarios - it's dissimilar to your driving analogy, because cars aren't primarily designed to be used to kill people, and if someone tries to kill you with a car, it's really not feasible to try to defend yourself by killing them with a car.

I'm saying that the law only stops people who don't intend to commit a criminal act with their firearms from carrying them, because someone who plans to shoot up their workplace really isn't going to consider, "gee, carrying a loaded firearm in public is against the law!"

Saying "nobody can carry a gun" is just making the 99% of people who wouldn't use a gun for a criminal purpose unable to defend themselves against the minority that would - and will flagrantly violate laws against the possession of firearms anyways.

And women should violate the law to prevent themselves from being raped in the military?

No - the law should help to prevent them from being raped.

Or they should follow the law and report the attack through the proper channels up the chain of command so they're not detained as terrorists?

Which clearly isn't a solution that seems to be working, due to past military coverups over sexual assault in the military.

Seriously, the next person that steps on my toes or sneezes in my general direction, I'll blow their ******* brains out. *rolls eyes*

You're comparing rape to someone stepping on your toes. Can anyone say "rape culture"?

And there really shouldn't be anything laughable about actual cases of rape, whether for comedy or for a political point.

You're the one who compared to it getting sneezed on.

Lack of enforcement and victim blaming are an embaressment in the military.

So give women the tools to defend themselves. Your advice to women seems to be, "If someone is trying to rape you, lie back and take it, and then report it to the authorities (assuming you survive)". You're openly proclaiming that women should just let themselves be victimised. Men and women should both have the right and the means to defend themselves from illegal sexual penetration with deadly force.
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#27Caer_DeathPosted 5/7/2013 12:44:29 PM
Most cases of sexual assault in the military aren't the penetration kind of rape. Many women are just groped by a superior officer, or something of the like. And unfortunately, we all know how the military would respond if a women reacted by drawing a weapon. The woman is given less than the benefit of the doubt and is treated as a criminal. Unless the entire military were to handle these situations giving an extreme amount of weight and leeway for the victim, I don't see this working to do anything but turn the victim into a criminal.

And for the record, I strongly support and encourage women to exercise their Second Amendment right as civilians. Enough women being ready to protect themselves in itself makes potential attackers think twice.
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The circle of life was founded by the god of America. Love it or leave it!
#28methosagainPosted 5/7/2013 12:55:00 PM
I was in the USAF for almost 18 years, and I was always amazed and perplexed at the number of incidents involving Sexual Harassment and Rape among the officer corp, especially when compared not just to the sister services but the enlisted corps of the USAF as well. Enlistment standards in the USAF are much higher than the other branches, especially so to become commissioned and one has to wonder if this fact has some bearing on the high number. Its useful to remember that among Civs in similar positions such as CEO's with similar educational backgrounds the rates of sexual harassment are damn near identical. Not sure if incidents like this are a true reflection of the Military culture in general, or of the culture established in Colleges and Universities that is being brought into the Military.
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Law of the universe states the strong shall survive and the weak fall by the way, I don't give a damn what idealistic plan is cooked up, nothing changes that
#29dermoratrakenPosted 5/7/2013 1:05:53 PM
This seems like something outside civilian oversight could help with, but I'm no military nerd so if this a bad idea I'm willing to listen.
That's exactly what's been happening for the last year. I'm not sure how much it would help, though. The problem is inherent in the system. One of the reasons it is covered up or ignored is because people don't want to deal with it. It's not like the civilian world where your boss fires you and the police handle the rest. Your superiors are responsible for everything and have to handle with the repercussions as well.

In units where it's addressed and reported and dealt with properly, the commander gets yelled at because his sexual assaults are so high, and his career may be ruined. You can't fix the problem this way.
#30EastsideslingerPosted 5/7/2013 1:21:27 PM
Here, I'll inject some much needed wisdom and perspective into this topic.

-Personal weapons are generally restricted on bases although certain exceptions can be made if you live in base housing. Otherwise if your caught with a weapon on your persons, in your vehicle, whatever on base your getting the d in the worst way period

-Generally when incidents like this happen the proper thing to do is for the individual in question to immediately report the incident up the chain of command. In the event that that is not possible or the victim feels they cannot trust the chain of command they can go outside their chain of command.

Believe it or not service people are still people and sometimes they may be scared or to embarrassed and ashamed to report what happened to them.

-While "good old boy" syndrom is prevelent that is not always the case, especially when a report goes outside the command. Believe or not Big military (in my case Big Navy) does not tolerate these sorts of things likely even more so now that the Secretary of Defense is making commanders put into writing and having to explain why they are dropping or pardoning a mast or court martial

-Officers and NCO indeed do protect their own but that does not mean they don't go unpunished, whatever level of stupid they did does follow them forever as does most things for all ranks.

In all, I find it kind of amusing to see civilians musing about military life like it's such an alien thing.
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