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Religion = Lazy Philosophy?

#31RetrotasticPosted 5/27/2011 10:27:41 AM(edited)
"It's all just random init?" is equally as lazy if not more so. At least God is an attempt at some kind of explanation.

Though it's not that people particularly care about whether they're being intellectually lazy or not they just want their afterlife nicely sorted out for them so they can just get on with what they're getting with.
#32ledzepfan15Posted 5/27/2011 10:44:17 AM
"It's all just random init?" is equally as lazy if not more so. At least God is an attempt at some kind of explanation.
Actually that's where explanations usually end. The second you try and figure out HOW god acts is when things become obscure. People try all sorts of gymnastics in attempt to explain how god does things...and what makes it worse is that explanations- for the same thing- differ among individuals.

Though it's not that people particularly care about whether they're being intellectually lazy or not they just want their afterlife nicely sorted out for them so they can just get on with what they're getting with.

Which is a problem...because people SHOULD care about their intellectual laziness. There's no substantial proof of an afterlife, yet some people live their lives as if one undoubtedly exists.
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"If you think, you are late. If you are late, you use strength. If you use strength, you tire. And if you tire, you die." - Saulo Ribeiro
#33RetrotasticPosted 5/27/2011 12:14:50 PM(edited)
Actually that's where explanations usually end. The second you try and figure out HOW god acts is when things become obscure. People try all sorts of gymnastics in attempt to explain how god does things...and what makes it worse is that explanations- for the same thing- differ among individuals.

It's still human nature to make an effort, all cultures throughout all of history in every part of the world came up with something. What our ancestors did was to think beyond universe in order to explain our universe. And if the Big Bang is anything to go by they weren't entirely wrong to do so. There most certainly is something else that exists there will have to be as something cannot come out of nothing by itself. What else exists beyond our universe is somewhat unknown however.


Which is a problem...because people SHOULD care about their intellectual laziness. There's no substantial proof of an afterlife, yet some people live their lives as if one undoubtedly exists.

They feel better in their life believing that there is an afterlife with some holy text or other to support their faith in it than not believing in one or not knowing whether there is one or not. It isn't an intellectual or scientific exercise for them it's a faith they have which improves their life, they feel like they have a purpose, they can better deal with adversity and hardship, it isn't quite so bad when a loved one dies or whatever. If you don't need anything like that then that's fine but most people do so there isn't much of a point trying to argue with them against it. They would jus ask what atheism a belief would offer them and "just nuthin" won't cut it as they want something more, which is nothing less than eternity itself.
#34ledzepfan15Posted 5/27/2011 12:17:04 PM
There most certainly is something else that exists there will have to be as something cannot come out of nothing by itself.

http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2011/02/can_you_get_something_for_noth.php

They feel better in their life believing that there is an afterlife with some holy text or other to support their faith in it than not believing in one or not knowing whether there is one or not. It isn't an intellectual or scientific exercise for them it's a faith they have which improves their life, they feel like they have a purpose, they can better deal with adversity and hardship, it isn't quite so bad when a loved one dies or whatever. If you don't need anything like that then that's fine but most people do so there isn't much of a point trying to argue with them against it.


I understand the point of view here, but none of these are reasons to continue intellectual laziness. It's a giant appeal to emotion.
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"If you think, you are late. If you are late, you use strength. If you use strength, you tire. And if you tire, you die." - Saulo Ribeiro
#35RetrotasticPosted 5/27/2011 12:49:52 PM(edited)
You can't get something for nothing, there always has to be something in order to get something else that's a fundamental fact of existence. We do see protons or what have you that seemingly come into existence from nothing but they come into existence through a quantum effect. Therefore they come from something which in turn has it's origins in something else and so into either infinity or until you something that is in itself infinite.

I understand the point of view here, but none of these are reasons to continue intellectual laziness. It's a giant appeal to emotion.

That may be but humans are emotional beings, if we were emotional lacking androids then absolute 100% cold reason would do nicely. As it is we seem to have something else that most people like to have some degree of faith in. And for the vast majority of people it probably does them some degree of good, so fair enough. Ok so the bulk of the worlds population are most certainly wrong in what they believe in a pretty serious way but it doesn't matter they will get to find out when they die. Or perhaps they won't it all depends on whether consciousness can survive death or not. If it can they were right about that at least, if it can't they will remain blissfully unaware of their erasure from existence, which for them doesn't exist anyway so nothing lost. You're not going to be able to be in some place or state where you're not.
#36ledzepfan15Posted 5/27/2011 8:34:17 PM
You can't get something for nothing, there always has to be something in order to get something else that's a fundamental fact of existence. We do see protons or what have you that seemingly come into existence from nothing but they come into existence through a quantum effect. Therefore they come from something which in turn has it's origins in something else and so into either infinity or until you something that is in itself infinite.

Even when there's apparently nothing there, there is still something. So in actuality, there is never "nothing," in which case something CAN come from nothing.

Or perhaps they won't it all depends on whether consciousness can survive death or not.

We don't have enough evidence to think it can.
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"If you think, you are late. If you are late, you use strength. If you use strength, you tire. And if you tire, you die." - Saulo Ribeiro
#37ElementalWindPosted 5/29/2011 1:40:20 PM
If you actually study theology and/or philosophy of religion you'll relize that religious belief is far from 'lazy.'
Most religious people are not philosophers/theologians.

You can't get something for nothing, there always has to be something in order to get something else that's a fundamental fact of existence.
(code for "I can't actually prove this")
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Now, if we'd just use postfix syntax like sensible people, this wouldn't even be an issue. -scudobuio