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Miraculous healing?

#1AgingknightPosted 5/27/2011 7:15:30 AM(edited)
Neal Morse, one of my favorite musicians of all time just released his new album, so I was curious what it was about and then stumbled upon more information on him. I saw this on Wikipedia which has cited his DVD, but it says, "One part of his conversion to Christianity, omitted from Testimony but described in full on Testimony Live, was that his daughter Jayda had been diagnosed as having a hole in her heart that required open-heart surgery. However, before Jayda was given surgery the hole disappeared following a church service in which Morse's wife and others prayed for God's healing."

What do you think? Miraculous? Absurd? Completely normal for a hole in the heart to vanish? I'm hearing of seemingly miraculous healing, such as this one more often nowadays.
#2mystic belmontPosted 5/27/2011 7:27:58 AM
I'd like some sort of evidence.

It is possible that the doctor he went to misread/misdiagnosed the hole in the heart.
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#3kozlo100Posted 5/27/2011 9:16:18 AM
It's hard to evaluate these things without more data. A child described as having a hole in the heart sounds like a congenital heart defect. Those do sometimes heal on their own, so that kind of eliminates the possibility of using this as solid objective evidence of a miracle.

However, it would be silly to assume that miracles must only be impossible things. A possible thing at the right time can be just as miraculous. Given that, the guy prayed for their daughter to get better and she did. I wouldn't criticize him one bit for taking that as personal evidence.
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#4BetaSquadronPosted 5/27/2011 12:12:50 PM
Agingknight
Posted 5/27/2011 7:15:30 AM
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What do you think? Miraculous? Absurd?


It's miraculous in the sense that people are happy that it turned out that way. But if people are literally attributing it to magical causes, then it's most definitely absurd.

Completely normal for a hole in the heart to vanish?

Probably not, but it doesn't even matter. Rare occurrences are still natural. If something is not attributable to normal causes, you're not allowed to just wildly speculate about supposed causes. Well you can, but you shouldn't hold steadfastly to speculation that has no proof.

I'm hearing of seemingly miraculous healing, such as this one more often nowadays.

There are more people on the planet and information is more readily available than ever before. What's interesting to me is that if there were a higher frequency of occurrences, that provides more opportunities to study the supposed mechanics behind them. But that never happens because there's nothing there to study. People are just making stuff up.
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#5NsM ComatosisPosted 5/27/2011 12:45:28 PM(edited)
I wouldn't criticize him one bit for taking that as personal evidence.

I would, because there's no evidence to assume prayer healed her, as opposed to, say, it being the case that the defect had healed prior to the prayer and no one knew about it.

Just this Tuesday, I was flying back home from a work-related trip, and the airline had originally told me the flight would be delayed 2 hours--this was the last flight for the day headed in my direction too. I was already on standby because we had missed a connection flight earlier thanks to mechanical problems in the plane. After a couple of hours of wasting time at a restaurant in the airport, I decided to step outside to see if I could buy a phone charger, given that I forgot to pack mine and the battery was dead--this was a couple of hours before the delayed flight was supposed to leave. Just as I headed out of the restaurant, I heard a final boarding call for my flight over the intercom, ran to the gate, and managed to get on the plane. The flight that was supposed to have been delayed 2 hours wasn't, it turns out, and they didn't even bother telling me because I was already on standby and would've gotten a hotel room for free anyway.

So, I would've been stuck in Memphis for one more day if my phone wasn't dead, if I hadn't decided to leave the restaurant at that time, and if the final boarding call hadn't been made (which was directed at someone else, mind you). I was lucky as hell, all things considered. But, if I had thrown in a prayer at any point during the day, would there be any reason to believe that God, with his infinite love for me and all, answered my prayer and helped me not miss my flight?
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#6LinkFanaticPosted 5/27/2011 7:22:40 PM(edited)
kozlo100 posted...

However, it would be silly to assume that miracles must only be impossible things. A possible thing at the right time can be just as miraculous.

But if we take that route, isn't it sort of meaningless? Yes, one of the dictionary definitions of a miracle is simply "a wonder", but when we're dealing with situations where the supernatural, in this case a god, is being invoked as the sole cause of a purported phenomenon, the only reasonable definition of the word is one that evokes the supernatural/god.
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#7the_hedonistPosted 5/28/2011 12:46:16 AM
LinkFanatic posted...
But if we take that route, isn't it sort of meaningless? Yes, one of the dictionary definitions of a miracle is simply "a wonder", but when we're dealing with situations where the supernatural, in this case a god, is being invoked as the sole cause of a purported phenomenon, the only reasonable definition of the word is one that evokes the supernatural/god.

Well, what is our definition of a miracle? To me, a miracle is simply a divine intervention. So God can intervene in the natural world in a way that seems completely mundane and not out of the ordinary, but I would still consider it a miracle. It would just be more difficult to identify God as the originator of the action compared to a miracle that is actually "impossible."
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#8GuideToTheDarkPosted 5/28/2011 12:55:17 AM
It would be difficult to identify anything mundane as a miracle, let alone attribute it to the deity of your choice.
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#9LinkFanaticPosted 5/28/2011 2:28:36 AM
the_hedonist posted...
It would just be more difficult to identify God as the originator of the action compared to a miracle that is actually "impossible."

You're just proving my point. If something can be readily explained through mundane postulations, where does your god come in?

an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause.

^ From dictionary.com. That is the definition i am using, as I feel it is the only pragmatic one when dealing with incidents chalked up to a deific figure. For example, if a specific phenomenon has no apparent natural cause, while I wouldn't necessarily agree on it being a miracle, there is certainly room for debate amongst proponents of said miracle, as well as the inverse.

On the other hand, going by your definition, the word loses all sense of purpose, and is essentially stripped of its potential meaning, leaving no room for debate, or, in the case of empiricism, scientific testing.
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#10OnceInALifeTimePosted 5/28/2011 7:22:54 AM
It's even worse when people do incredible things of their own accord and then thank god for making them able to do it. It's alright to take credit for things you have done yourself.
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