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If omniscience is possible, free will is impossible.

#1fudrickPosted 6/16/2011 6:39:33 PM
If it's possible to know the future with certainty, then it's impossible to change that known future, and therefore we have no free will to decide what we do in the future.
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Best FCs:
GH1: Decontrol | GH2: Jordan, Hangar 18 | GH80s: Because It's Midnite | GH3: One, Soothsayer | RB2: I Ain't Superstitious
#2CIA911Posted 6/16/2011 7:26:23 PM
Yikes.
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Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that this place shall no more be called Tophet, nor The valley of the son of Hinnom, but The valley of slaughter.
#3fudrick(Topic Creator)Posted 6/16/2011 7:27:52 PM
No response?
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Best FCs:
GH1: Decontrol | GH2: Jordan, Hangar 18 | GH80s: Because It's Midnite | GH3: One, Soothsayer | RB2: I Ain't Superstitious
#4AgingknightPosted 6/16/2011 7:28:01 PM
"then I saw all the work of God, that man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun. However much man may toil in seeking, he will not find it out. Even though a wise man claims to know, he cannot find it out."
#5fudrick(Topic Creator)Posted 6/16/2011 7:30:20 PM
Agingknight posted...
"then I saw all the work of God, that man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun. However much man may toil in seeking, he will not find it out. Even though a wise man claims to know, he cannot find it out."

Care to explain exactly what the f*** this is supposed to mean with regard to this topic?
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Best FCs:
GH1: Decontrol | GH2: Jordan, Hangar 18 | GH80s: Because It's Midnite | GH3: One, Soothsayer | RB2: I Ain't Superstitious
#6AgingknightPosted 6/16/2011 7:36:37 PM
Read it until you comprehend.
#7fudrick(Topic Creator)Posted 6/16/2011 7:40:21 PM
Agingknight posted...
Read it until you comprehend.

How about you actually address my points in the first post? If someone/something can be 100% certain about what the future holds, then how can we have the free will to do what we like in that future?
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Best FCs:
GH1: Decontrol | GH2: Jordan, Hangar 18 | GH80s: Because It's Midnite | GH3: One, Soothsayer | RB2: I Ain't Superstitious
#8CIA911Posted 6/16/2011 7:48:34 PM(edited)
If someone/something can be 100% certain about what the future holds, then how can we have the free will to do what we like in that future?

Because...his knowledge has nothing to do with our free will. We can choose to do whatever we want. I can go steal a car tomorrow if I want. The fact God knows I will do it doesn't effect my free will to do it. He isn't controlling my actions. I've already made the decision...God simply knows what it is because he's already seen it happen. And if I change my mind at the last minute...that's my free will to do so, God simply knows I was going to do that as well. We have no constraints, we are allowed to do whatever we want. The only thing we don't control is our Salvation.

You are right about one thing though, it is impossible to change the future, because it's already happened. If we tried to change it...the fact we are trying to change it was always what the future held.

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Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that this place shall no more be called Tophet, nor The valley of the son of Hinnom, but The valley of slaughter.
#9fudrick(Topic Creator)Posted 6/16/2011 7:50:10 PM
CIA911 posted...
Because...his knowledge has nothing to do with our free will. We can choose to do whatever we want. I can go steal a car tomorrow if I want. The fact God knows I will do it doesn't effect my free will to do it. He isn't controlling my actions. I've already made the decision...God simply knows what it is because he's already seen it happen. And if I change my mind at the last minute...that's my free will to do so, God simply knows I was going to do that as well. We have no constraints, we are allowed to do whatever we want. The only thing we don't control is our Salvation.

But if he knew we were going to change our mind, then the first option was never really an option in the first place. No matter what, the outcome is inevitable and unchangeable if god knows what that outcome is. We can't do anything to change that outcome, and therefore we have no free will. The fact that you can actually think this is a little frightening.
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Best FCs:
GH1: Decontrol | GH2: Jordan, Hangar 18 | GH80s: Because It's Midnite | GH3: One, Soothsayer | RB2: I Ain't Superstitious
#10OrangeWizardPosted 6/16/2011 7:51:13 PM
Inherent omniscience.
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"this game is about reality. ... when you fire a gun you are not like "what is this am i shooting sausages?""
-General_Dong on Black Ops