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So basically god = everything that's impossible.

#81Faust_8(Topic Creator)Posted 6/21/2011 12:48:21 PM
Look at it this way. You are making a virtual world in material world. The virtual world does not need time and space. It relies on information and calculations (our invention). But you are right that ultimately it is encased in a material world. Our world is also created from something else, and is sustained by something that we inheretly cannot concieve. (At this point you are going to have to bare with me and understand that I'm not a christain and my theology is very different from one, so I don't expect you to catch on). Occording to Jewish thought, our existence is in essence the same as the existence of a virtual world. G-d created existence by the use of spiritual means and sustains us every moment using the same method. The same as a microchip holding information.

The virtual world does need time and space. The electronics controlling it need wires and circuits and chips that occupy space, and without time, the electricity could not move.

But I still don't really see how this analogy explains anything. Supposing it did make complete sense, it doesn't exactly translate to validating the completely different situation that is our universe.
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#822ndSamuraiPosted 6/21/2011 6:42:22 PM
"The virtual world does need time and space. The electronics controlling it need wires and circuits and chips that occupy space, and without time, the electricity could not move.

But I still don't really see how this analogy explains anything. Supposing it did make complete sense, it doesn't exactly translate to validating the completely different situation that is our universe."

Good now you are catching on. Just as the wires, chips and circuits hold and sustain the virtual world (which happens to show a dependency on calculations), G-d sustains our world (which happens to show a dependency on time and space) using spiritual means as it says in the traditional Jewish blessing, "...in His goodness, He renews daily, prepetually, the work of creation."
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#83Faust_8(Topic Creator)Posted 6/21/2011 10:24:57 PM
You seem to be considering the virtual world and the components of it (wires, etc) as separate things. Why?

Remember, when you're playing a video game, you're not actually in a virtual world, just something that APPEARS to be one. When really it's all just colored dots on a screen with sound effects.

The components ARE the game--it's the imagination of the human brain that makes it a "world." The game would still exist even if there was no screen being interpreted by human eyes.

So I still think the analogy only seems proper at first glance.
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#842ndSamuraiPosted 6/22/2011 8:55:08 AM
Well it doesn't necessarily have to be a videogame.

"You seem to be considering the virtual world and the components of it (wires, etc) as separate things. Why?"

Well they are separate things. The wires and etc produce the information of the virtual world just as the spiritual exsistence of G-d produces our physical world.
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#85Faust_8(Topic Creator)Posted 6/22/2011 9:13:44 AM
Video game, program, same difference. They both look like something to our eyes but are still just little dots on a screen, and they exist even if the screen isn't there to display them.

That's why I'm saying that the hard drive and CPU and all that IS the "virtual world" and not just something supporting it.

Still, it seems like we're not even talking about god being outside time and space. If you're saying that the universe exists because god does, or something, I can't really debate that.
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#862ndSamuraiPosted 6/22/2011 2:46:29 PM
"Video game, program, same difference. They both look like something to our eyes but are still just little dots on a screen, and they exist even if the screen isn't there to display them.

That's why I'm saying that the hard drive and CPU and all that IS the "virtual world" and not just something supporting it."

Your right the screen just displays the information, but there still is a little world that is supported by the chips. That is not to say there are little people inside the chip, but is just like our relatedness to the spiritual. There aren't any larger people outside of our time and space, but it is a different world.

"Still, it seems like we're not even talking about god being outside time and space. If you're saying that the universe exists because god does, or something, I can't really debate that."

Well we are debateing if it's possible, regardless it's true or not, or even if G-d exist or not.
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