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Question for both religious and non-religious.

#212ndSamuraiPosted 6/24/2011 11:06:54 AM
Technically yes the tree does make a sound.
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#22RetrotasticPosted 6/24/2011 1:43:07 PM
No the tree would just make ripples in the molecule in the surrounding air it wouldn't be sound. Sound only exists inside brains.
#232ndSamuraiPosted 6/25/2011 8:15:10 PM
Oh yeah? Well what if a machine picked up the Sound Waves?
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#24me_faiyezPosted 6/25/2011 9:18:01 PM
The Universe doesn't have to have a 'point'. This concept is a purely human abstraction of significance with respect to a given situation.

I guess you could go and say that there is no point if there are no minds... just like one can say that there are no numbers in a Universe with no minds to conceive of them.

A Universe without intelligent life is conceivable and the property of existence is not an abstract, so yes, it can exist.
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#25xXxCroNoxXxPosted 6/25/2011 10:00:14 PM
Does the universe has a point if no [intelligent] life existed to acknowledge the universe exists,
No

does the universe exist if there is no [intelligent] life to acknowledge it exists?
Yes
#26shuffleboardPosted 6/26/2011 12:54:45 AM
The universe has no point as far as we know outside that God created it to house his creations.

Even if there were no sentient beings in the universe, it would still exist.
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#27avsfan33Posted 6/26/2011 9:02:29 AM

From: kozlo100 | #005
I don't know that the universe has a point, per se, even with intelligent life in it. Though I am fairly sure that a universe with no intelligent life could still be said to exist. Observation does have an effect on the nature of reality, but I don't believe you can say a lack of observation negates it.


This. I don't think the universe has a point... it simply "is". And I think its existence is independent of intelligence life observing it.

It is a bit different than the tree case... a more apt analogy is "if a tree fell in a forest and nobody saw it, did it still fall?" and I think most reasonable people would say "yes".
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#28ChickenChaserPosted 6/26/2011 9:28:27 AM
"t's a 2 part question. Kind of mixes philosophy in it. Does the universe has a point if no [intelligent] life existed to acknowledge the universe exists, and does the universe exist if there is no [intelligent] life to acknowledge it exists? Kind of like how if a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"


1. the Universe has no "point" either way - but more directly ... "meaning" is a contextual assignment that sapient entities assign to the causal 3 dimensional observations they experience as reality. If there is no consciousness, then meaning itself is meaningless. The Universe is filled with aspects and properties that we as thinking minds never experience - the night sky is not dark at all - the radiation from countless stars bombard the earth with light at all times, we only see it as darkness punctuated with pinpoints of light due to the limitations of our biology. Does this invisible light thus exist? Sure. Does it have meaning? Only to the extent to which we assign it meaning. You do not exist as a creature of the moment - you exist as an amalgamation of all versions of yourself from infancy to death - but you do not experience reality in this way confined to your 3 dimensional reality - you perceive yourself hopping from moment to moment moving from infancy to death, as this is how you experience the 4th dimension of time - but this does not mean that the Universe's reality coincides -

In short - meaning is derived through observation and classification - without either the whole question is pointless - if a tree falls in the woods without anyone to hear it - it by definition does not make a sound, as sound is not the existence of waves moving through atmosphere, but rather the interpretation of those waves.

2. The universe exists. We hold this to be self evident because we experience it. Without experience or observation the question of existence is entirely pointless. There would be no quantifiable difference between existence and non-existence. So the answer would be ... "yes, and no..." followed by "who cares."
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#29str8KnowledgePosted 6/26/2011 11:22:15 AM
I just realized a tree wouldn't make a sound even if someone were there to hear it.
#30RetrotasticPosted 6/26/2011 11:47:15 AM
Oh yeah? Well what if a machine picked up the Sound Waves?

It depends whether the machine has a mind that can interpret waves in the air as sound or not. As sound only exists inside minds. Vibrating air molecules are just vibrating air molecules as far as the universe itself is concerned.