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Are there any pro-choice Christians here?

#1MrTamborineManPosted 6/22/2011 11:07:35 AM
I was discussing this with the only pro-choice Christian I know, and his arguments did not even get to the threshold of logic (I'm talking about his logic here, not other arguments for abortion) or have even a shred of compatibility with the Christian faith. I was wondering if any pro-choice Christians here would like to shed light on why they are pro-choice, and how they reconcile that with their Christian convictions.

I really just want to hear some different views from my own here, and although I'm sure a debate will arise from this, I would really appreciate any contributions from anyone who fits this description.
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"When I cannot sing my heart, I can only speak my mind"
#2xXxCroNoxXxPosted 6/22/2011 11:35:50 AM(edited)
historically abortion has been legal(or a very minor offense) in Christian societies until the quickening(the point when movement begins to be felt inside the mother). St. Augustine did not consider abortion to be homicide, and Aquinas believed that a fetus was not en-souled until well after conception. The view that the soul is imparted at the moment of conception, as well as the view that society should criminalize abortion for this reason is relatively new, only dating back 160 or so years. In fact, that's one of the reasons why the Supreme Court ruled against abortion laws in Roe V Wade
#3Aperture_ShadoPosted 6/22/2011 11:35:40 AM
^And you aren't a Christian at all, so what was the point of that?
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#4MrTamborineMan(Topic Creator)Posted 6/22/2011 1:25:00 PM
historically abortion has been legal(or a very minor offense) in Christian societies until the quickening(the point when movement begins to be felt inside the mother). St. Augustine did not consider abortion to be homicide, and Aquinas believed that a fetus was not en-souled until well after conception. The view that the soul is imparted at the moment of conception, as well as the view that society should criminalize abortion for this reason is relatively new, only dating back 160 or so years. In fact, that's one of the reasons why the Supreme Court ruled against abortion laws in Roe V Wade

Wow, I did not know any of that. Thats very interesting. Especially:

St. Augustine did not consider abortion to be homicide, and Aquinas believed that a fetus was not en-souled until well after conception

While I am Orthodox and do not put much stock in Aquinas personally, I find that very intriguing. Thanks for the input.
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"When I cannot sing my heart, I can only speak my mind"
#5MrTamborineMan(Topic Creator)Posted 6/22/2011 1:26:26 PM
Aperture_Shado posted...
^And you aren't a Christian at all, so what was the point of that?

The point was that what he presented could concievably be the arguments of some pro-choice Christians.
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"When I cannot sing my heart, I can only speak my mind"
#6LinkFanaticPosted 6/22/2011 1:31:11 PM
Aperture_Shado posted...
^And you aren't a Christian at all, so what was the point of that?

Why are non-Christians exempt from posting Christian worldviews?
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SSJ Gotenks is santa clause, because he can fly around the planet in one night. - ShaolinAced
#7SilviiroPosted 6/22/2011 2:18:28 PM(edited)
I read this recently and found it interesting.

"Thou shalt not murder a child by abortion, nor again shalt thou kill it when it is born." Epistle of Barnabas 19:5

The Epistle of Barnabas is one of those books that just narrowly missed being included in the canon.

It is part of a parallel passage in the Didache.

"you shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill that which is born." Didache 2
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#8serpentslayerPosted 6/22/2011 2:46:47 PM
If anything, the Bible supports abortion due the valuing of an unborn child's life as less than his mother in the Old Testament. The marriage of religion and the pro-life movement comes from a desire to punish women who have sex, which also falls in line with the Old Testament.
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God is man helping man: this is the way to everlasting glory. -Pliny the Elder
#9xXxCroNoxXxPosted 6/22/2011 3:22:01 PM(edited)
^And you aren't a Christian at all, so what was the point of that?

What was the point of pointing out that I am not?
#10NoTitleRequiredPosted 6/22/2011 4:31:53 PM
MrTamborineMan posted...
While I am Orthodox and do not put much stock in Aquinas personally, I find that very intriguing. Thanks for the input.

The idea of delayed ensoulment comes from Aristotlean philosophy that the West didn't seem to be able to let go of and seemed to make into their foundational presuppositions by the time of the Scholastic era. I listen to pretty much nothing Aquinas has to say, and I find very little of value in St. Augustine either. He has his moments, but he seems pretty screwed up for the most part.
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