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Faith =/= Blind faith.

#1OrangeWizardPosted 7/22/2011 10:50:42 PM(edited)
Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident reality, though not beheld - Hebrews 11:1

That's right, faith is based on evidence. Faith, in this sense, is more like trust. You trust someone with your car keys, because you know they're careful and responsible. You have faith that they'll return the car safely.

Another definition says that faith means believing in something without proof.

You don't have proof that he'll return your car safely, because there's always a degree of uncertainty. But you believe he will return it safe. This is faith. You have EVIDENCE, which is his driving record, and Defensive Driving certificate, or whatever, but that isn't proof. It cannot be proven that your car will be returned safely until you actually get it back.

I hear people making fun of faith often, but this is because they do not have a clear definition of what it means. So you should stop, or refute the claims in this topic.

I made this it's own topic so a wider selection of people can discuss this thing, rather than just me vs. two people who made a topic just to make fun of faith.



So, Is this a good definition of Faith?
C/D
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"this game is about reality. ... when you fire a gun you are not like "what is this am i shooting sausages?""
-General_Dong on Black Ops
#2OrangeWizard(Topic Creator)Posted 7/22/2011 10:49:59 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#3GuideToTheDarkPosted 7/22/2011 11:05:33 PM
Sure, okay. Evidence is falsifiable, though.
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Of course the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you--if you don't play, you can't win. -- Robert Heinlein
'Would have', not 'would of'.
#4anavriNPosted 7/23/2011 2:54:28 AM
You don't have proof that he'll return your car safely, because there's always a degree of uncertainty. But you believe he will return it safe. This is faith. You have EVIDENCE, which is his driving record, and Defensive Driving certificate, or whatever, but that isn't proof. It cannot be proven that your car will be returned safely until you actually get it back.

I wouldn't say I have belief that my friend would return my car. Rather, I'd say that I have reason and evidenced based estimates of the chances that both my friend and the car will be returned unharmed. Based on these estimates, I rake the risk. All life is basically taking risked, either thoroughly calculated risks or simply 'gut-feeling' risks.

Aside from this, there is also a sense of morality involved: you feel a moral desire to help a friend, so that is a factor in lending your car as well.
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§ 157. Der Gedanke an den Selbstmord ist ein starkes Trostmittel: mit ihm kommt man gut über manche böse Nacht hinweg.
#5OzymandiasIVPosted 7/23/2011 4:17:23 AM
The only problem with having faith in religion is that you won't know if you're correct until after you die, and even then, that's only if your consciousness still somehow exists outside your body. What evidence do you have that the afterlife is real, and that you'll be going there?

And, OW, I really have to ask- it seems that, no matter what you do, according to your religion, if you're not chosen to be saved, you aren't, and if you are chosen, you are. If this is the case, why do you let your religion control so much of your life? You can be a good person without it, and it apparently won't change what happens to you in the end. Why exalt a being that won't even consider the good things you've done if he's already decided not to save you?
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In order to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
You musn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling.
#6shockwavepulsarjimPosted 7/23/2011 4:43:39 AM
You don't have proof that he'll return your car safely, because there's always a degree of uncertainty. But you believe he will return it safe. This is faith. You have EVIDENCE, which is his driving record, and Defensive Driving certificate, or whatever, but that isn't proof. It cannot be proven that your car will be returned safely until you actually get it back.

But this is evidence nonetheless. The analogy is flawed: you don't have any of this for a religious belief.
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Proletarier aller Lander vereinigt Euch!
#7Faust_8Posted 7/23/2011 8:55:27 AM
The reason your faith seems blind to so many is because the evidence you're going on can only barely be called evidence at all.
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My understanding of reality is contingent...on reality.
"We think the future that we will find together is greater than the assumptions of our past."
#8anavriNPosted 7/23/2011 10:36:26 AM
The reason your faith seems blind to so many is because the evidence you're going on can only barely be called evidence at all.

And let's not forget that religious beliefs are often extraordinary claims, and these, as the saying goes, require extraordinary evidence.
Believing that someone can drive a car and live to tell the day, hell, even believing that s/he'll properly return the car because s/he's your friend, is the complete opposite of extraordinary. We see both things happen all the time, therefore we have both first- and second-hand evidence that the risk you are taking is negligible.
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§ 157. Der Gedanke an den Selbstmord ist ein starkes Trostmittel: mit ihm kommt man gut über manche böse Nacht hinweg.
#9Heineken14Posted 7/23/2011 10:38:36 AM
Your example would be better if someone stole your car and you had "faith" they would bring it back unharmed and with a full tank of gas for the inconvenience.
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Do you have anything flashier? I want something that says "I own this room. I own you."
#10squareandrarePosted 7/23/2011 10:44:38 AM
Faith =/= Blind faith.

In the case of religious faith, it absolutely is.

If you have some evidence you're holding in your back pocket, pull it out.
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"Physics is not a religion. If it were, we'd have a much easier time raising money."
-- Leon Lederman