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Let's discuss pantheism, pandeism and panentheism.

#1DiranosaurPosted 8/9/2011 4:42:37 PM
Pantheism is the belief that God is identical to the universe.
Pandeism is the belief that God created the universe, and is himself equal to universe, or that he became the universe upon it's creation.
Panentheism is the belief that God is in everything, but that he is also transcendent and more than the universe (kinda like the holy spirit).

I consider myself a pantheist, of the naturalistic kind and one of my friends is a panentheist who believes in the Christian God as a panentheistic god, but he believes the Bible to be the word of man, not the word of God.

Let's have a discussion!
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#2xXxCroNoxXxPosted 8/9/2011 4:51:09 PM(edited)
I'm not following how pandeism and pantheism are different Wouldn't the self-creating God of pantheism be the same as the self-creating god of pandeism? (note, I see the difference in the second example of pandeism)
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#3Diranosaur(Topic Creator)Posted 8/9/2011 4:57:06 PM
TheGeneralPublic posted...
I'm not following how pandeism and pantheism are different Wouldn't the self-creating God of pantheism be the same as the self-creating god of pandeism? (note, I see the difference in the second example of pandeism)

Pantheism doesn't need creation, while pandeism does, but sure, there's not too much difference.
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#4kozlo100Posted 8/9/2011 5:09:11 PM
The big distinction for me is whether or not the universe/god has a consciousness.

It's kind of hard to show reason to believe that it does. On the other hand, if you believe that it doesn't, then pantheism sort of boils down to believing the universe exists, doesn't it?
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The problem, then, is that if subjective worlds are experienced too differently, there occurs a breakdown in communication. -- Philip K. Dick
#5Diranosaur(Topic Creator)Posted 8/9/2011 5:13:10 PM
kozlo100 posted...
The big distinction for me is whether or not the universe/god has a consciousness.

It's kind of hard to show reason to believe that it does. On the other hand, if you believe that it doesn't, then pantheism sort of boils down to believing the universe exists, doesn't it?


Or the way you see the universe. You might, for example, say that the universe has consciousness through it's inhabitants. That we all act like cells in a body, the universe.

Also, pantheism has a lot to do with being connected to the universe and everything in it, to share a bond. We could all be considered parts of the universe, instead of it's population.

There are, of course, many many versions of pantheism.
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My folk band - http://barfota.bandcamp.com/
Mandolin - Flute - Bouzouki/Nyckelharpa - Guitar
#6kozlo100Posted 8/9/2011 5:16:45 PM
That's sort of what I'm getting at. Believing the universe contains conscious beings and that we are a part of it is so self-evidently true that I don't know why one would put a label to it. I would dare say that there isn't anyone who doesn't believe those things.

If you want to imply some sort of metaphysical connections, then I can see the utility in talking about it as a belief set, but you lose all of the self-evident truth beyond that point.
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The problem, then, is that if subjective worlds are experienced too differently, there occurs a breakdown in communication. -- Philip K. Dick
#7TheLesserFaithXPosted 8/9/2011 5:17:25 PM
Can I define God as something real then claim God is real?

God is my lucky spoon. I'm holding my lucky spoon right now.

God is real.
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#8Diranosaur(Topic Creator)Posted 8/9/2011 5:36:03 PM
kozlo100 posted...
That's sort of what I'm getting at. Believing the universe contains conscious beings and that we are a part of it is so self-evidently true that I don't know why one would put a label to it. I would dare say that there isn't anyone who doesn't believe those things.

If you want to imply some sort of metaphysical connections, then I can see the utility in talking about it as a belief set, but you lose all of the self-evident truth beyond that point.


Which is why pantheists don't believe in a god in a traditional sense. As I stated before, it's more about how you view the universe and your connection with it, as well as the sacredness of nature. You find the same elements in many neopagan religions.

The connection could just as well be physical, as we have yet to discover everything. Maybe there's actually some kind of force that links every atom. I don't believe in a physical bond (other than the obvious physical bond you have to the universe, and through the fact that we're all made of the same stuff) between every living thing, but many pantheists do. Instead, I believe in a more "spiritual" bond, not the supernatural kind, however.

I don't rule out the possibility of a physical bond, just like I don't rule out the possibility of a transcendent god, though, even though they are irrelevant to my current beliefs.
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My folk band - http://barfota.bandcamp.com/
Mandolin - Flute - Bouzouki/Nyckelharpa - Guitar
#9Hustle KongPosted 8/9/2011 5:38:42 PM
"Which is why pantheists don't believe in a god in a traditional sense. As I stated before, it's more about how you view the universe and your connection with it, as well as the sacredness of nature. You find the same elements in many neopagan religions."

I definitely see the appeal in pantheism. the feeling of awe and sacredness is a pretty powerful thing.
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#10kozlo100Posted 8/9/2011 5:39:02 PM
Which is why pantheists don't believe in a god in a traditional sense. As I stated before, it's more about how you view the universe and your connection with it, as well as the sacredness of nature.

That's what I'm asking. What is different about how you view the universe from your average person? I think the universe is pretty awe inspiring, and I'm glad I'm a part of it. How is a pantheist different from me?
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The problem, then, is that if subjective worlds are experienced too differently, there occurs a breakdown in communication. -- Philip K. Dick