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Is religious reconstruction a bad idea?

#11RetrotasticPosted 8/30/2011 5:11:06 AM
Its not a great idea because those religions belonged to civilisations from the past who didn't have modern day values or knowledge of the universe. You could say the same thing about say Christianity and Islam but they have modernised over time, at least Christianity has. Also these old religions tend to be polytheistic but those specific personal gods as far as we can tell don't exist, the things they were meant to do and explain we now have other explanations for. I don't see any reasonable way of bringing them back from the dead, at a push you could claim that they were advanced aliens but we don't worship aliens.
#12fudrickPosted 8/30/2011 5:19:44 AM
Retrotastic posted...
Also these old religions tend to be polytheistic but those specific personal gods as far as we can tell don't exist, the things they were meant to do and explain we now have other explanations for.

Because, y'know, this totally doesn't apply to all the "modern" (as in, still commonly practiced) and popular religions, aside from polytheism.
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#13Hustle KongPosted 8/30/2011 5:27:16 AM
Point well taken, fudrick.
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Shooting Game never die.
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#14RetrotasticPosted 8/30/2011 5:36:25 AM(edited)
fudrick posted...
Retrotastic posted...
Also these old religions tend to be polytheistic but those specific personal gods as far as we can tell don't exist, the things they were meant to do and explain we now have other explanations for.

Because, y'know, this totally doesn't apply to all the "modern" (as in, still commonly practiced) and popular religions, aside from polytheism.


One all powerful, all loving, omnipresent prime mover or first cause is still philosophically feasible, we still don't know where the universe came from so there's a gap to fill. If someone believes in something like that I don't think they're completely off their rocker. If someone genuinely believed in the ancient Egyptian or Greek gods I would generally think they are.

I'm not sure if any of these people here were ever on their rockers.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/YSEE_ritual.jpg
#15DagorhaPosted 8/30/2011 5:42:16 AM
Well that's the thing. Even what a god is can be argued. If they take the ancient gods just to be symbols of nature then they can still worship them and heck, even give them attributes based on how nature works. I know some people would ask then what the point is but I always think that respecting nature is a very noble pursuit if nothing else.
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#16fudrickPosted 8/30/2011 5:54:37 AM
Retrotastic posted...
One all powerful, all loving, omnipresent prime mover or first cause is still philosophically feasible

Unfortunately the existence of something is not a philosophical issue, and I don't see how it's any more feasible than the gods of polytheistic religions. If anything, I'd say the popular monotheistic conception of god is much less feasible considering that qualities ascribed to god are often contradictory, while gods of polytheistic religions often seem to be more like humans with superpowers.

Retrotastic posted...
we still don't know where the universe came from so there's a gap to fill.

I like how you actually use the same terminology as the name of the fallacy you're using.

Retrotastic posted...
If someone believes in something like that I don't think they're completely off their rocker. If someone genuinely believed in the ancient Egyptian or Greek gods I would generally think they are.

Yeah... because it's more common and accepted to be a christian or follow another monotheistic religion than it is to follow those ancient religions. I'm pretty sure that if you had never heard of any religions, it would seem much more insane that some people believe that an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, eternal spirit being with perfect morals created a man from dust and a woman from his rib, placed them in a "paradise," freaked out when they made a single mistake, basically cursed all of their descendents forever which is everyone on earth, then the great (not sure how many greats) grandson of those two people spent 100 years (from age 500 to 600) building a giant boat to hold at least two of every animal on earth for a year while the aforementioned being with "perfect morals" murdered every other living thing on the planet, and then continued to slaughter countless innocent people for a couple thousand years more, at which point he went "WAIT! I've been wrong this whole time (somehow)! I shouldn't ask the humans to sacrifice to me, I should split myself into two, impregnate a 14 year old, live a normal life for 20 something years, perform a few lackluster miracles, most of which will be recreated by magicians like David Blaine and Criss Angel in 2000 years, then let myself get brutally tortured and murdered which somehow allows me to forgive every human ever, which for some reason I couldn't have done without going through all this!" and that now, because of that sacrifice, we have to eat a cracker and drink wine which actually and literally turns into his flesh and blood inside our stomachs... than that some people believe that a guy pulls the sun across the sky.

That was definitely the longest and probably the worst sentence I have ever written.

Retrotastic posted...
I'm not sure if any of these people here were ever on their rockers.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/YSEE_ritual.jpg


I don't know who those people are.
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#17RetrotasticPosted 8/30/2011 5:55:32 AM
Dagorha posted...
Well that's the thing. Even what a god is can be argued. If they take the ancient gods just to be symbols of nature then they can still worship them and heck, even give them attributes based on how nature works. I know some people would ask then what the point is but I always think that respecting nature is a very noble pursuit if nothing else.

That would be something like Wicca which more some kind of mystical pantheism it isn't a true reconstruction of a polytheistic religion. Wicca is based on the concept of drawing upon psychic energies from the the God and Goddess (representing the polarity of the universe) in the form of magick rituals and such that resembles pagan practices back in ancient history. Though Wicca probably has more to do with Freemasonry and Western Occultism than any actual pre-Christian religion. All this business about it being based on a real authentic pagan witchcraft teachings that had survived the "burning times" of the middle-ages is most certainly a fabrication.
#18Hustle KongPosted 8/30/2011 6:00:46 AM
Wait, is retro actually casting aspersions on the sitting habits of others?!
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Shooting Game never die.
It prays that the clover of luck be always in your mind.
#19fudrickPosted 8/30/2011 6:10:37 AM
Hustle Kong posted...
Wait, is retro actually casting aspersions on the sitting habits of others?!

Hahahaha
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Best FCs:
GH1: Decontrol | GH2: Jordan, Hangar 18 | GH80s: Because It's Midnite | GH3: One, Soothsayer | RB2: I Ain't Superstitious
#20RetrotasticPosted 8/30/2011 7:35:52 AM(edited)
fudrick posted...
Retrotastic posted...
One all powerful, all loving, omnipresent prime mover or first cause is still philosophically feasible

Unfortunately the existence of something is not a philosophical issue, and I don't see how it's any more feasible than the gods of polytheistic religions. If anything, I'd say the popular monotheistic conception of god is much less fesible considering that qualities ascribed to god are often contradictory, while gods of polytheistic religions often seem to be more like humans with superpowers.


There could be human like beings with superpowers but they're not on Earth and I don't think they're offering us anything. Some kind non-material infinite/eternal aspect of reality of which we're all a part that we could call God is feasible imo. I don't actually know for certain if its true but I'm open minded toward the possibility. I'm open to the possibility of the universe being entirely the result of a random mechanistic process as well but I don't actually know all these things for certain either way. I certainly think there is a lot going on here that we don't understand that much I do know.




Yeah... because it's more common and accepted to be a christian or follow another monotheistic religion *snip*

Many of these myths were never meant to be taken literally in the first place. One interesting point of note is the creation story of Genesis actually roughly fits with the evolution of life on Earth. Not all Christians believe that Jesus died as a sacrifice so the sins of humanity could be purified there's a lot of differences of opinion on who Jesus was and what he actually did. I think he may have been some kind of enlightened master and philosopher such as Buddha. Perhaps he was a spiritual healer as well there were quite a few of those around at the time. Though I doubt he ever raised the dead or calmed storms if he ever had an genuine paranormal powers of any description at all. Some of the religious rituals seem a bit silly to outsiders but all religions have something like that, humans have the capacity to engage in some kind of collective "religious experience" and that goes back before civilisation itself. Scientists have taken brain scans of people engaged in the religious experience across different religions and it seems to have the effect of stimulating the temporal lobe regions of the brain while nullifying the orientation centres. Regardless of the religion it will always have the same effect so that's interesting. It doesn't have to be anything supernatural before you try to give your materialist spiel. I'm open minded on this subject as I'm aware of not knowing all there is to know.



I don't know who those people are.

You don't particularly need to you just have to look at them. Though I suppose they're probably getting the same kind of experience as Christians in a church. Worshipping Zeus probably isn't that much different from worshipping Jesus but at least Jesus was a real guy. Not that people should be worshipping a regular man of any description ideally as that's most likely all that Jesus was. Its a matter of opinion and faith though.


Hustle Kong posted...
Wait, is retro actually casting aspersions on the sitting habits of others?!

Like yourself I don't believe the gods of Olympus ever existed. Nor do I believe Jesus was literally God in a human form or that Mohammed had the word of God dictated to him by an angel but they were at least real humans who did and said something. Monotheism is generally a bit more sophisticated in its more esoteric mystical form as well. I don't believe in individual personal gods though as to me that's almost the equivalent of believing in Santa Claus. The kind of God Spinoza or Einstein believed in is more my cup of tea.