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Best evidence that Jesus existed?

#1DaveTheUselessPosted 9/2/2011 6:24:13 AM
Someone asks you for evidence that Jesus existed. What do you point to... or do you suggest there is nothing?
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#2the final bahamutPosted 9/2/2011 6:40:07 AM
There is nothing. It's reasonable to assume Jesus existed, because there's no pile of evidence saying he didn't, but neither are there any objective records of him having ever lived.

As for whether he had magical powers or not, it's pretty safe to assume he didn't.
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#3the final bahamutPosted 9/2/2011 6:40:43 AM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#4PhiZZiZlePosted 9/2/2011 7:05:18 AM
the final bahamut posted...
There is nothing. It's reasonable to assume Jesus existed, because there's no pile of evidence saying he didn't, but neither are there any objective records of him having ever lived.

As for whether he had magical powers or not, it's pretty safe to assume he didn't.


why lie?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
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#5actarusPosted 9/2/2011 7:06:32 AM
Those miracles started 40 years before the destruction of the Temple (Summer 70 AD)
Around this time (30AD-31AD) was Jesus crucified.

Jerusalem Talmud:

"Forty years before the destruction of the Temple, the western light went out, the crimson thread remained crimson, and the lot for the Lord always came up in the left hand. They would close the gates of the Temple by night and get up in the morning and find them wide open" (Jacob Neusner, The Yerushalmi, p.156-157). [the Temple was destroyed in 70 CE]

“Forty years before the destruction of the Temple, the Sanhedrin was BANISHED (from the Chamber of Hewn Stone) and sat in the trading station (on the Temple Mount)” - (Shabbat 15a).

Babylonian Talmud states:

"Our rabbis taught: During the last forty years before the destruction of the Temple the lot ['For the Lord'] did not come up in the right hand; nor did the crimson-colored strap become white; nor did the western most light shine; and the doors of the Hekel [Temple] would open by themselves" (Soncino version, Yoma 39b).


“Forty years before the Temple was destroyed. . .the gates of the Hekel [Holy Place] opened by themselves, until Rabbi Yohanan B. Zakkai rebuked them [the gates] saying, Hekel, Hekel, why alarmist thou us? We know that thou art destined to be destroyed...”

The Jerusalem Talmud states:

''Said Rabban Yohanan Ben Zakkai to the Temple, 'O Temple, why do you frighten us? We know that you will end up destroyed. For it has been said, 'Open your doors, O Lebanon, that the fire may devour your cedars' '' (Zechariah 11:1)' (Sota 6:3).


Says Josephus, in his Wars of the Jews:

“Thus also, before the Jewish rebellion, and before those commotions which preceded the war, when the people were come in great crowds to the feast of unleavened bread, on the eighth day of the month Xanthicus [Nisan] and at the ninth hour of the night, so great a light shone round the altar and the holy house, that it appeared to be bright day-time; which light lasted for half an hour. This light seemed to be a good sign to the unskillful, but was so interpreted by the sacred scribes as to portend those events that followed immediately upon it. At the same festival also, a heifer, as she was being led by the high priest to be sacrificed, brought forth a lamb in the midst of the temple. Moreover, the eastern gate of the inner, [court of the temple,] which was of brass, and vastly heavy, and had been with difficulty shut by twenty men, and rested upon a basis armed with iron, and had bolts fastened very deep into the firm floor, which was there made of one entire stone, was seen to be opened of its own accord about the sixth hour of the night. Now, those that kept watch in the temple came thereupon running to the captain of the temple, and told him of it; who then came up thither, and not without great difficulty was able to shut the gate again. This also appeared to the vulgar to be a very happy prodigy, as if God did thereby open them the gate of happiness. But the men of learning understood it, that the security of their holy house was dissolved of its own accord, and that the gate was opened for the advantage of their enemies. So these publicly declared, that this signal foreshewed the DESOLATION that was coming upon them” - (IV,5,3).
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#6RetrotasticPosted 9/2/2011 7:46:24 AM(edited)
The story of the nativity suggest its based on someone who did exist. Why go to the hassle of writing that story in order to have Jesus parents traveling to Bethlehem because of a census so he could be born there as prophesied when he could have just been born there to start with?

And we know full well that story was essentially mythological as there was no such census it didn't happen. There would certainly be historical records of it happening if it did.
#7actarusPosted 9/2/2011 8:02:07 AM(edited)
Retrotastic posted...

And we know full well that story was essentially mythological as there was no such census it didn't happen. There would certainly be historical records of it happening if it did.


I think that your belief is based on Chronology errors from historicists.
1) You don't know the Birth date
2) You can't disprove that Quirinus was Governor of Syria from 4 B.C. to I B.C or another year between 7 B.C-5 B.C
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Even the smallest star twinkles in the dark
#8actarusPosted 9/2/2011 8:15:15 AM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#9RetrotasticPosted 9/2/2011 8:15:22 AM
If there was ever a Roman census where everyone had to return to the town of their birth then that would be something that would have been mentioned outside of the Bible. The Massacre of the Innocents most certainly would have been mentioned as well.
#10actarusPosted 9/2/2011 8:30:41 AM
Retrotastic posted...
If there was ever a Roman census where everyone had to return to the town of their birth then that would be something that would have been mentioned outside of the Bible. The Massacre of the Innocents most certainly would have been mentioned as well.

The "Massacre of the Innocents" was only in Bethlehem for a short time.
Josephus didn't mention it but Herod's bio is filled with murder.
The "argument of silence" is not a logical proof.
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Even the smallest star twinkles in the dark