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Best evidence that Jesus existed?

#111mystic belmontPosted 9/5/2011 4:34:55 PM

From: Retrotastic | #110
Just type in NDE in Google if you're interested you can do it as well as I can. I haven't really read that many websites about it myself. There was a good online book of some description I've read but I've forgotten what it was called.



If it's on the internet, it must be true!
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#112ledzepfan15Posted 9/5/2011 4:44:23 PM
Before you even get into looking into the evidences in question you can more less see that materialism isn't a particularly tenable position to take.

It's like he can't help it.
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#113DaveTheUseless(Topic Creator)Posted 9/5/2011 5:01:27 PM
I believe in NDEs/OBEs (as said before) and there's quality evidence for each (Dr. Greyson of Virginia's work comes to mind), but I won't dismiss the possibility of materialistic explanation for it all. Just not what I personally believe.
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#114fudrickPosted 9/5/2011 5:11:39 PM
Retrotastic posted...
There isn't definitive proof of evolution which is why evolutionists are still around, in great numbers in some places.

Err, yes there is. It's literally been observed. But I know you accept it so I'm not even going down that road.

Surely you aren't saying that there is no one who denies things that are conclusively proven, though?

Retrotastic posted...
But there certainly is some form existence beyond physical matter we can be as sure of that as we can be sure of evolution.

See, this is what I'm talking about. Just last post you said "I never never [what's with the double never?] said I had absolute proof of anything" and now you're saying it's certain. Certainty implies absolute proof.

Retrotastic posted...
Simple things like the universe not spontaneously appearing out of thin air for no apparent reason should be enough of a clue.

Simple things like the spiritual realm not spontaneously appearing out of thin air for no apparent reason should be enough of a clue that there's something beyond the something beyond the universe.

Right?

Also, why are you assuming that the universe began to exist?

Retrotastic posted...
For every effect there is a cause that's starting out with some very simple logic a very young could understand. The ultimate cause of all that exists is not physical, consciousness itself is not physical.

So what's the cause of that stuff? Or are you using the classic theist argument that "everything needs a cause, so god must exist. Oh yeah by the way, god doesn't need a cause."

Retrotastic posted...
Just type in NDE in Google if you're interested you can do it as well as I can. I haven't really read that many websites about it myself. There was a good online book of some description I've read but I've forgotten what it was called.

I'm familiar with NDEs. What I want is evidence that they're more than hallucinations caused by the DMT released before death, that it's some sort of alternate realm people visit during these situations.

Retrotastic posted...
There's no excuse for having blind faith in anything just because you want it to be true but that's a different thing. Even Dawkins doesn't mind spirituality in regard to the awe of the universe or whatever.

By spiritualist I meant one who believes there is something beyond the physical universe.

Retrotastic posted...
If you're not a materialist then you ought to be more open minded toward it. Even Sam Harris is and Albert Einstein was. You can still ignore astrologers and spoon benders.

I'm not going to be open minded towards those things with no evidence. Derren Brown shows how easy it is to do that sort of thing with psychological tricks.
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#115fudrickPosted 9/5/2011 5:12:12 PM
DaveTheUseless posted...
I believe in NDEs/OBEs (as said before) and there's quality evidence for each (Dr. Greyson of Virginia's work comes to mind), but I won't dismiss the possibility of materialistic explanation for it all. Just not what I personally believe.

Have you looked into DMT?
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Best FCs:
GH1: Decontrol | GH2: Jordan, Hangar 18 | GH80s: Because It's Midnite | GH3: One, Soothsayer | RB2: I Ain't Superstitious
#116DaveTheUseless(Topic Creator)Posted 9/5/2011 6:05:02 PM
Have you looked into DMT?

Yes, but I feel there is enough out there pointing to people learning things when they were 'out' that I believe what I do. I'm not attesting cold hard fact, just that I read some professional articles that swayed me. I'm not denying that DMT produces a similar sensation, though I'm not sold it's the same.
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#117fudrickPosted 9/5/2011 6:12:01 PM
DaveTheUseless posted...
Yes, but I feel there is enough out there pointing to people learning things when they were 'out' that I believe what I do.

I'm interested in any form of legitimate documentation of this happening. Like, preferably an official report from an ER or something and not just "yeah my friend was dying and then next time I saw him he knew what I was doing while he was passed out!" I think at least one other person already asked for evidence of this, though I don't know if it was in response to you.
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Best FCs:
GH1: Decontrol | GH2: Jordan, Hangar 18 | GH80s: Because It's Midnite | GH3: One, Soothsayer | RB2: I Ain't Superstitious