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How can God's love be unconditional if it requires the follower to repent and...

#21FingerpuppetPosted 11/2/2012 11:15:55 AM
kts123 posted...
I want to be with God, but I also don't believe in him until further evidence is supplied that he exists. What would happen to me?



What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. - 1 Corinthians 5


That doesn't actually answer my question.
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http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/214-paranormal-conspiracy/63352960#16
The greatest shut down ever.
#22Barenziah Boy Toy(Topic Creator)Posted 11/2/2012 11:19:39 AM
You can love someone unconditionally and still punish them when they do wrong.
Since you're comparing God's punishment to parental punishment, what parental punishment of a child is comparable to Eternal Damnation in Hell?

Just a question, but why is belief in God more improbable than what you already believe about the origin of the universe and the nature of morality?
Observable and testable evidence.

Why do you believe in gravity and the curvature of the Earth vs some idiot who claims that the Earth is flat?
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You don't need a treaty to have free trade. M Rothbard
{Self-Hating Token Asian of the Ivory Tower's Zionist Elite}
#23C_MatPosted 11/2/2012 11:53:36 AM(edited)
Fingerpuppet posted...
No, the universe is satisfactory evidence that the universe exists; it doesn't prove that God exists in the same way the Harry Potter books don't prove that Harry Potter exists..


Does the existence of Harry Potter books prove the existence of an author?
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http://youtu.be/gmnSnNC8UJk
#24Barenziah Boy Toy(Topic Creator)Posted 11/2/2012 11:55:59 AM
Does the existence of Harry Potter books prove the existence of an author?
Are you seriously going to use the Watchmaker argument to prove the existence of God?
Seriously?
Seriously?
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You don't need a treaty to have free trade. M Rothbard
{Self-Hating Token Asian of the Ivory Tower's Zionist Elite}
#25C_MatPosted 11/2/2012 11:57:46 AM
Barenziah Boy Toy posted...
Since you're comparing God's punishment to parental punishment, what parental punishment of a child is comparable to Eternal Damnation in Hell?


If you broke that question down a bit, I'd definitely answer it for you. My analogy was really simple and clear.

A child does something wrong, Dad punishes the child.
A human does something wrong, God punishes the human.

Observable and testable evidence.

Why do you believe in gravity and the curvature of the Earth vs some idiot who claims that the Earth is flat?


I don't really see what that has to do with my question but I can let that go, I'd rather see you answer the first one.
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http://youtu.be/gmnSnNC8UJk
#26Barenziah Boy Toy(Topic Creator)Posted 11/2/2012 12:02:01 PM(edited)
A child does something wrong, Dad punishes the child.
A child does something wrong, Dad punishes the child to the point where the child can learn from his mistakes and become a better person. Any punishment that goes beyond that = abuse, not love.

A human does something wrong, God punishes the human.
There is no going back from Eternal Damnation. Humans that go to hell can't learn from this punishment and can't improve themselves as moral beings. They are eternally damned.

Your analogy = destroyed.


I don't really see what that has to do with my question but I can let that go,
Then perhaps you should go back to 7th grade and practice your reading comprehension skills.
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You don't need a treaty to have free trade. M Rothbard
{Self-Hating Token Asian of the Ivory Tower's Zionist Elite}
#27FingerpuppetPosted 11/2/2012 12:02:36 PM
C_Mat posted...
Fingerpuppet posted...
No, the universe is satisfactory evidence that the universe exists; it doesn't prove that God exists in the same way the Harry Potter books don't prove that Harry Potter exists..


Does the existence of Harry Potter books prove the existence of an author?


Yes, yes it does. But that doesn't mean that anyone created the universe because we know that certain things can occur without a cause.
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http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/214-paranormal-conspiracy/63352960#16
The greatest shut down ever.
#28kts123Posted 11/2/2012 1:30:01 PM(edited)
That doesn't actually answer my question.


The Holy Spirit clearly speaks to everyone, so I do know everyone has contact with God in some form at some point during their life. I think people get too focused on the idea of belief as an intellectual position. "To the choirmaster. Of David. The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none who does good. [Psalm 14:1] In scripture, the fool is someone who is set against God, not necessarily someone who is unintelligent, e.g. Satan. This psalm states "says in his heart." There is a difference between having a mistaken intellectual position, and having a heart bent against God. So while this may sound odd, I do believe there are possibly 'atheists in the Church' -- people who deep down know and love the Lord, but have succumb to weakness of flesh.

So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! -Romans 7:22-25

Of course I would be lying if I tried to pass this as more than my personal speculation. I really can't give you a definite answer because I don't fully understand it myself yet. But, as the scripture I quoted previously says, it's not my place to judge those outside the church (thankfully!)
#29FingerpuppetPosted 11/2/2012 2:53:32 PM
kts123 posted...
The Holy Spirit clearly speaks to everyone, so I do know everyone has contact with God in some form at some point during their life. I think people get too focused on the idea of belief as an intellectual position. "To the choirmaster. Of David. The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none who does good. [Psalm 14:1] In scripture, the fool is someone who is set against God, not necessarily someone who is unintelligent, e.g. Satan. This psalm states "says in his heart." There is a difference between having a mistaken intellectual position, and having a heart bent against God. So while this may sound odd, I do believe there are possibly 'atheists in the Church' -- people who deep down know and love the Lord, but have succumb to weakness of flesh.

So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! -Romans 7:22-25

Of course I would be lying if I tried to pass this as more than my personal speculation. I really can't give you a definite answer because I don't fully understand it myself yet. But, as the scripture I quoted previously says, it's not my place to judge those outside the church (thankfully!)


But that still doesn't prove God's existence, so for what reason should I acknowledge what you're saying?
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http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/214-paranormal-conspiracy/63352960#16
The greatest shut down ever.
#30C_MatPosted 11/2/2012 4:02:00 PM
Barenziah Boy Toy posted...
A child does something wrong, Dad punishes the child.
A child does something wrong, Dad punishes the child to the point where the child can learn from his mistakes and become a better person. Any punishment that goes beyond that = abuse, not love.

A human does something wrong, God punishes the human.
There is no going back from Eternal Damnation. Humans that go to hell can't learn from this punishment and can't improve themselves as moral beings. They are eternally damned.

Your analogy = destroyed.

I don't really see what that has to do with my question but I can let that go,
Then perhaps you should go back to 7th grade and practice your reading comprehension skills.


Funny that you think I should go back to 7th grade, seeing as how claiming victory in the middle of a debate is considered a high school debate squad tactic. (If you're still in high school, forgive me for the misunderstanding).

I'm going to reflect on this statement from you for a minute: "A child does something wrong, Dad punishes the child to the point where the child can learn from his mistakes and become a better person." Are you claiming that you think the only purpose of punishment is to correct bad behavior?
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http://youtu.be/gmnSnNC8UJk