This is a split board - You can return to the Split List for other boards.

How can God's love be unconditional if it requires the follower to repent and...

#31C_MatPosted 11/2/2012 3:04:42 PM
Fingerpuppet posted...
C_Mat posted...
Fingerpuppet posted...
No, the universe is satisfactory evidence that the universe exists; it doesn't prove that God exists in the same way the Harry Potter books don't prove that Harry Potter exists..


Does the existence of Harry Potter books prove the existence of an author?


Yes, yes it does. But that doesn't mean that anyone created the universe because we know that certain things can occur without a cause.


In your analogy, God is not a character in the book like Harry, but the author. But you can try another analogy if you'd like, but I still think the universe is sufficient evidence to prove there was a designer.
---
http://youtu.be/gmnSnNC8UJk
#32FingerpuppetPosted 11/2/2012 3:22:34 PM
C_Mat posted...
Fingerpuppet posted...
C_Mat posted...
Fingerpuppet posted...
No, the universe is satisfactory evidence that the universe exists; it doesn't prove that God exists in the same way the Harry Potter books don't prove that Harry Potter exists..


Does the existence of Harry Potter books prove the existence of an author?


Yes, yes it does. But that doesn't mean that anyone created the universe because we know that certain things can occur without a cause.


In your analogy, God is not a character in the book like Harry, but the author. But you can try another analogy if you'd like, but I still think the universe is sufficient evidence to prove there was a designer.


No, my analogy is that just because one thing exists doesn't mean that another thing exists as well. We know that the books (the universe) exists, but that doesn't mean the character (God) does as well. You're misinterpreting it to serve your own ends.

Furthermore, the universe is not sufficient evidence to prove there was a designer. You're either pulling that out of your ass or you don't understand physics.
---
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/214-paranormal-conspiracy/63352960#16
The greatest shut down ever.
#33C_MatPosted 11/2/2012 4:08:18 PM
Fingerpuppet posted...
No, my analogy is that just because one thing exists doesn't mean that another thing exists as well. We know that the books (the universe) exists, but that doesn't mean the character (God) does as well. You're misinterpreting it to serve your own ends.

Furthermore, the universe is not sufficient evidence to prove there was a designer. You're either pulling that out of your ass or you don't understand physics.


Think about your analogy: God is not a character in his book. Is J.K. Rowling a character in Harry Potter?
---
http://youtu.be/gmnSnNC8UJk
#34hunter_gohanPosted 11/2/2012 4:35:01 PM(edited)
kts123 posted...
If you genuinely do not want to be with God, he will not force you. Given that God literally is all things good, you're ultimately depriving yourself of all things good if you reject him. Saying you want good things, but not God, is like saying you want to meet your dad but not the guy who got your mom pregnant..


The problem here is that you guys always seem to define good as "what god does". This would be analogous if dad was defined as "the guy I claim is your dad".

C_Mat posted...
I think the universe itself is satisfactory evidence of God's existence.


I think the universe itself is satisfactory evidence of Odin's existence

kts123 posted...
The Holy Spirit clearly speaks to everyone, so I do know everyone has contact with God in some form at some point during their life


Odin clearly speaks to everyone, so I do know everyone has contact with him in some form at some point during their life.

Look at this, I can make stuff up with no evidenciary backing as well!


C_Mat posted...
Funny that you think I should go back to 7th grade, seeing as how claiming victory in the middle of a debate is considered a high school debate squad tactic. (If you're still in high school, forgive me for the misunderstanding).


He claimed he destroyed your analogy after demonstrably destroying your analogy. I don't see what's wrong with that. Attempting to ignore the arguments your opponent is making is an elementary school yard argument tactic, so you should probably stop that.

Since you're comparing God's punishment to parental punishment, what parental punishment of a child is comparable to Eternal Damnation in Hell?

I'll add a little addendum to that question: show anyone besides horribly abusive parents, that just about everyone can agree are horrible parents, use said punishment on their child.
---
Fundamentalism in a nut shell: Raphael: It's God's will. Castiel: How can you say that?! Raphael: Because it's what I want!
#35FingerpuppetPosted 11/2/2012 5:25:16 PM
C_Mat posted...
Fingerpuppet posted...
No, my analogy is that just because one thing exists doesn't mean that another thing exists as well. We know that the books (the universe) exists, but that doesn't mean the character (God) does as well. You're misinterpreting it to serve your own ends.

Furthermore, the universe is not sufficient evidence to prove there was a designer. You're either pulling that out of your ass or you don't understand physics.


Think about your analogy: God is not a character in his book. Is J.K. Rowling a character in Harry Potter?


And here you are committing a fallacy. Instead of acknowledging the point, you instead opt to acknowledge only the analogy. I'll say it again since you simply don't understand it.

Just because one thing exists doesn't mean that another thing that could've created it exists as well. Furthermore, the universe is not sufficient evidence to prove there was a designer. You're either pulling that out of your ass or you don't understand physics.

Now stop playing parkour with my point.
---
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/214-paranormal-conspiracy/63352960#16
The greatest shut down ever.
#36MatamoriPosted 11/2/2012 6:21:05 PM
Barenziah Boy Toy posted...
turn away from sin?

Wouldn't both acts of i) repentance, and ii) the effort to turn away from sin, themselves, be considered conditions for God's love?
.


Actually, God's love can best be described as undeserved. What did sinfull humanity do to earn the love of a perfect God?
---
If you believe in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and you're not ashamed, put this in your signature.
#37C_MatPosted 11/2/2012 8:52:45 PM
Fingerpuppet posted...
And here you are committing a fallacy. Instead of acknowledging the point, you instead opt to acknowledge only the analogy. I'll say it again since you simply don't understand it.

Just because one thing exists doesn't mean that another thing that could've created it exists as well. Furthermore, the universe is not sufficient evidence to prove there was a designer. You're either pulling that out of your ass or you don't understand physics.

Now stop playing parkour with my point.


It's funny that you brought up the book analogy, but then when I showed you that it actually proves my point instead of your point, now it's a fallacy. But I'll move on.

You said above that "just because one thing exists doesn't mean that another thing that could've created it exists as well."

Could you please name one thing for me (besides the universe) that exists without a creator?
---
http://youtu.be/gmnSnNC8UJk
#38Barenziah Boy Toy(Topic Creator)Posted 11/2/2012 11:49:26 PM
Could you please name one thing for me (besides the universe) that exists without a creator?
It has already been proven that life can be created through random mixing of particles.
.
---
You don't need a treaty to have free trade. M Rothbard
{Self-Hating Token Asian of the Ivory Tower's Zionist Elite}
#39hunter_gohanPosted 11/3/2012 1:51:27 PM
C_Mat posted...
It's funny that you brought up the book analogy, but then when I showed you that it actually proves my point instead of your point, now it's a fallacy. But I'll move on.


We can show you people writing books. We can demonstrate the publishing process. You can sit down and talk with various authors. Can we do that with gods creating universes as well?

Could you please name one thing for me (besides the universe) that exists without a creator?


Rain, trees, flowers etc. All of those are created with no sentient "creator" behind them. Just because all man-made objects require a creator does not mean all objects require a creator.
---
Fundamentalism in a nut shell: Raphael: It's God's will. Castiel: How can you say that?! Raphael: Because it's what I want!
#40C_MatPosted 11/4/2012 11:01:19 PM
Barenziah Boy Toy posted...
Could you please name one thing for me (besides the universe) that exists without a creator?
It has already been proven that life can be created through random mixing of particles.
.


Hey wait, I already asked you a question earlier.

I'm going to reflect on this statement from you for a minute: "A child does something wrong, Dad punishes the child to the point where the child can learn from his mistakes and become a better person." Are you claiming that you think the only purpose of punishment is to correct bad behavior?

Are you going to respond to that or not? If you acknowledge that punishment has other applications besides correcting bad behavior, and you've answered the question you originally started this topic with. But I'll go ahead and break it down more for you- since I really want you to understand how great God is.

Punishment is deserved justice for wrongdoing. It's why we have the death penalty for those who cause the deaths of others. Nobody's behavior is corrected when they're killed for their crimes; it's simply justice for their actions.

God holds his children accountable for their wrongdoing, yet because He loves his children so much, He gives them the free choice to repent instead of facing justice.

See, God requires His followers to repent because of His unconditional love, not in spite of it. It's actually a pretty sweet deal when you think about it.

(Sorry if I was rude the other day about this. I felt like you started it, but that doesn't give me a good reason to be a jerk in return. I'm always more comfortable with polite discussion, even if I'm arguing with someone.)
---
http://youtu.be/gmnSnNC8UJk