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How can God's love be unconditional if it requires the follower to repent and...

#41Barenziah Boy Toy(Topic Creator)Posted 11/5/2012 10:51:34 AM(edited)
Are you claiming that you think the only purpose of punishment is to correct bad behavior?
On the part of the loving parent? Assuming that the parent loves the child? Yes, of course. Any other reason for punishing the child besides correcting bad behavior would demonstrate that love is not part of the equation.

Society and government have different purposes for punishment. But we're not talking about them. We're talking solely about why a parent would punish his/her child.
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You don't need a treaty to have free trade. M Rothbard
{Self-Hating Token Asian of the Ivory Tower's Zionist Elite}
#42Barenziah Boy Toy(Topic Creator)Posted 11/5/2012 10:47:09 AM(edited)
Punishment is deserved justice for wrongdoing. It's why we have the death penalty for those who cause the deaths of others.
No, we don't. That is not why we have the death penalty.

Nobody's behavior is corrected when they're killed for their crimes; it's simply justice for their actions.
If this is what you assume to be God's will, then you just destroyed your own premise that God's love is unconditional. If punishment is deserved justice for wrongdoing, then God cares more about justice than It does about any single individual, which proves that God's love is indeed NOT unconditional.

Thank you for disproving your own argument.
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You don't need a treaty to have free trade. M Rothbard
{Self-Hating Token Asian of the Ivory Tower's Zionist Elite}
#43DoGCyNPosted 11/5/2012 10:48:19 AM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#44DoGCyNPosted 11/5/2012 10:55:52 AM(edited)
Barenziah Boy Toy posted...
If punishment is deserved justice for wrongdoing, then God cares more about justice than It does about any single individual, which proves that God's love is indeed NOT unconditional.


You missed the part where God is all loving and the Holy Judge. You seem to mutually exclude these two things from Him. God would not be Holy if He didn't give the punishment due for wrongdoing..so this is a requirement...however at the same time, He offers us the grace in order to "steer-clear" from this punishment (which is Jesus).

This grace...is like you getting pulled over for speeding, the cop NOT giving you a ticket, and then giving you $100 instead...which is purrrty funny lol.
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2 Corinthians 12:7-10
#45Barenziah Boy Toy(Topic Creator)Posted 11/5/2012 10:57:52 AM
You missed the part where God is all loving and the Holy Judge. You seem to mutually exclude these two things from Him. God would not be Holy if He didn't give the punishment due for wrongdoing..

I did not claim that they are completely mutually exclusive. BUT, love and justice are indeed two completely different things. The only way those two ever meet is to correct bad behavior.

If you punish someone, with no hope or intention of correcting his behavior, then by definition, you do not care about that person's well-being and thus, do not love him unconditionally.
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You don't need a treaty to have free trade. M Rothbard
{Self-Hating Token Asian of the Ivory Tower's Zionist Elite}
#46DoGCyNPosted 11/5/2012 11:04:43 AM(edited)
Barenziah Boy Toy posted...
You missed the part where God is all loving and the Holy Judge. You seem to mutually exclude these two things from Him. God would not be Holy if He didn't give the punishment due for wrongdoing..

I did not claim that they are completely mutually exclusive. BUT, love and justice are indeed two completely different things. The only way those two ever meet is to correct bad behavior.

If you punish someone, with no hope or intention of correcting his behavior, then by definition, you do not care about that person's well-being and thus, do not love him unconditionally.
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But God disciplines those He loves, as it is written in Proverbs 3:12. This isn't love you say? God clearly has great intention for correcting people's behavior. The book if Jonah is a GREAT example of this.
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2 Corinthians 12:7-10
#47Barenziah Boy Toy(Topic Creator)Posted 11/5/2012 11:05:00 AM
But God disciplines those He loves, as it is written in Proverbs 3:12. This isn't love you say?
Not if the intention of that discipline is anything other than to correct the individual's bad behavior or to improve the well-being of the individual that's being punished. Eternal Damnation would not qualify as 'loving' discipline.
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You don't need a treaty to have free trade. M Rothbard
{Self-Hating Token Asian of the Ivory Tower's Zionist Elite}
#48Barenziah Boy Toy(Topic Creator)Posted 11/5/2012 11:06:19 AM
God clearly has great intention for correcting people's behavior. The book if Jonah is a GREAT example of this.
That's perfectly fine. But the original point was to focus on those that have been Eternally Damned.
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You don't need a treaty to have free trade. M Rothbard
{Self-Hating Token Asian of the Ivory Tower's Zionist Elite}
#49DoGCyNPosted 11/5/2012 11:17:17 AM(edited)
Barenziah Boy Toy posted...
But God disciplines those He loves, as it is written in Proverbs 3:12. This isn't love you say?
Not if the intention of that discipline is anything other than to correct the individual's bad behavior or to improve the well-being of the individual that's being punished. Eternal Damnation would not qualify as 'loving' discipline.
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That's because hell is part of judgment. That's what it means when it is said that people choose their own fate. They rejected God's love, so what's left? And does God love them any less? Of course not.
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2 Corinthians 12:7-10
#50C_MatPosted 11/5/2012 11:14:13 AM
Barenziah Boy Toy posted...
Punishment is deserved justice for wrongdoing. It's why we have the death penalty for those who cause the deaths of others.
No, we don't. That is not why we have the death penalty.

Nobody's behavior is corrected when they're killed for their crimes; it's simply justice for their actions.
If this is what you assume to be God's will, then you just destroyed your own premise that God's love is unconditional. If punishment is deserved justice for wrongdoing, then God cares more about justice than It does about any single individual, which proves that God's love is indeed NOT unconditional.

Thank you for disproving your own argument.
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To try to respond to everything you said...
That's why Jesus came to the world. He took the punishment/justice that WE deserved. That way, God is both a righteous judge AND a loving father, just what you're looking for. He has delivered justice AND saved you- if you accept it, sincerely believe in Him and ask forgiveness for your sins.

And God's love is unconditional in the sense that He loves you right now, because He created you. But when someone goes to hell, they're separated from His love forever. For those who are saved, nothing will separate them from the love of God (Romans 8:38-29).

And out of curiosity, why do you think we have the death penalty if not for justice?
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http://youtu.be/gmnSnNC8UJk