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How can God's love be unconditional if it requires the follower to repent and...

#61C_MatPosted 11/5/2012 5:39:18 PM
Barenziah Boy Toy posted...
There are a bunch of people in Hell right now that are also taking the punishment, God has forsaken them as well.


Yes. Is this new information for you?
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http://youtu.be/gmnSnNC8UJk
#62hunter_gohanPosted 11/5/2012 6:22:37 PM
DoGCyN posted...
You missed the part about Jesus. Jesus took the punishment.


If person X does wrong action Y, then the punishment for action Y is due to person X not unrelated person Z.

You are punishing an innocent man in place of the person that actually did the crime. That is not giving either of those people their due punishment. That is giving person Z a completely undue punishment, and forgetting about giving the actual guilty person their due punishment or even any punishment at all.
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Fundamentalism in a nut shell: Raphael: It's God's will. Castiel: How can you say that?! Raphael: Because it's what I want!
#63C_MatPosted 11/5/2012 6:29:56 PM
hunter_gohan posted...
If person X does wrong action Y, then the punishment for action Y is due to person X not unrelated person Z.

You are punishing an innocent man in place of the person that actually did the crime. That is not giving either of those people their due punishment. That is giving person Z a completely undue punishment, and forgetting about giving the actual guilty person their due punishment or even any punishment at all.


That's a good point, but that's not the way sin/punishment is handled in the Bible. In the Bible, your sins are often compared to a debt, and from the Christian point of view Jesus "paid" that debt for you by taking your suffering.
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http://youtu.be/gmnSnNC8UJk
#64DoGCyNPosted 11/6/2012 7:30:22 AM
hunter_gohan posted...
DoGCyN posted...
You missed the part about Jesus. Jesus took the punishment.


If person X does wrong action Y, then the punishment for action Y is due to person X not unrelated person Z.

You are punishing an innocent man in place of the person that actually did the crime. That is not giving either of those people their due punishment. That is giving person Z a completely undue punishment, and forgetting about giving the actual guilty person their due punishment or even any punishment at all.


I don't see how this helps your case at all. If I'm reading that right...Jesus actually took our punishment yes, a punishment He didn't deserve. God doesn't demand blood for our actions, but offers His own, so that we can have life.
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2 Corinthians 12:7-10
#65DoGCyNPosted 11/6/2012 9:00:02 AM
And I should add that through all this, God's Holy Judgment and all-loving sides are both perfectly shown.
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2 Corinthians 12:7-10
#66childofdelightPosted 11/6/2012 9:06:55 AM
ilsunshangxiang posted...
actually there's nowhere in the bible that says "god loves everyone"


But it does state that God is love.

Higher consciousness, anyone?
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//I`*'\;:;:;/'*`*`{ ~ Light and Love ~ }`*`*'\;:;:;/'*`I\Y/I`'*|~P L~\*'`'I\\
|]I'*'`|:/\:|`'*n*'`{ ~ Blessed Be ~ } `'*u*'`|:/\:|`'*'I[ | ]I`'*|~U R~\*'`I[|
#67kts123Posted 11/6/2012 2:59:58 PM(edited)
Odin clearly speaks to everyone, so I do know everyone has contact with him in some form at some point during their life.

Look at this, I can make stuff up with no evidenciary backing as well!


Here's a really fun fact. If I'm right, I don't need to prove it to you, because you'll find out for yourself. Somewhat like: "Hey, you're going to win the lottery tomorrow." "Haha! No, my aunt will win the lottery tomorrow. See, I can make statements without evidence too!" Well, I don't need to prove you're going to win the lottery tomorrow, because when you win it'll prove my point for me. So wait until tomorrow.
#68kts123Posted 11/6/2012 3:05:02 PM(edited)
But that still doesn't prove God's existence, so for what reason should I acknowledge what you're saying?


Burden of proof is on God. If he doesn't exist, he'll be incapable of handling this burden. I don't need to split hairs about which religion has the right deity, because non-existent deities cannot carry burden of proof. Only a real, living God can carry burden of proof. For me to jump on the "let me prove my religion" train, would inherently have certain flaws. Namely, every devout follower of a religion is certain of the arguments they assert. Much like an Obama/Romney supporter trying to "prove" why their candidate is best, ultimately such an argument is obscured by potential bias.
#69mrplainswalkerPosted 11/6/2012 9:06:38 PM
Could you please name one thing for me (besides the universe) that exists without a creator?

Excuse me for popping into the middle of this conversation, but this just reeks of a double standard that I can't resist commenting on.

The watchmaker argument claims that God exists without a creator. Therefore, at least something can exist without a creator, making a creator unnecessary.

Seriously, can't we just graduate beyond "There was an old lady who swallowed a fly?"
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#70C_MatPosted 11/6/2012 9:13:20 PM(edited)
mrplainswalker posted...
Could you please name one thing for me (besides the universe) that exists without a creator?

Excuse me for popping into the middle of this conversation, but this just reeks of a double standard that I can't resist commenting on.

The watchmaker argument claims that God exists without a creator. Therefore, at least something can exist without a creator, making a creator unnecessary.

Seriously, can't we just graduate beyond "There was an old lady who swallowed a fly?"


God exists by necessity of His own nature. The universe does not. So it's not a double-standard at all, and actually makes infinitely more sense than the universe popping into existence out of literally nowhere. For that to happen would have to be a miracle (and therefore evidence of God). Without God, what atheists suggest is literally worse than magic.
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http://youtu.be/gmnSnNC8UJk