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What happens if I go to heaven and my wife to hell?

#51countzanderPosted 11/23/2012 8:07:07 PM
We're supposed to love everyone equally, just as God does. So ideally, a husband and wife should treat one another as they would a stranger (intimacy aside). When the Bible says "there will be no marriage in heaven," the statement comes as a surprise only because the casual reader has his own idea of love. The contemporary conception of love, the one espoused by the skeptics of this topic, is really just an aberrant form that, IMO, God never intended for us to have.
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#52anavriNPosted 11/24/2012 2:18:29 AM
^^
There's an interesting point here. Christianity tends to subvert usual (sociobiological) values we have: love to those close to us and contempt/hate for those on the other side of the fence. But by preaching hatred of the family and love for enemies, Christianity pushes people towards a calculated egalitarianism that borders on a dystopia.

The French philosopher Levinas made a tantalizing point about love: it's basically an égoïsme à deux (roughly translated: a bond of selfishness / a union of egoism), real love is to be blind to the other, because you love one person more than you love all other 7,000,000,000 on this planet combined.

Fact is that for love, most people would let the World burn. I know I would.

But Christianity is even more communistic than communism: divine love (set above our human conceptions of love) is that all humans are equal compared to one, infinite standard. That's the crucial difference between polytheism and monotheism: the gods of polytheism were of this world, often sublimations of local values and aspirations, but the One God of monotheism transcends the world, being above and beyond it. Polytheism emphasizes the differences between people, monotheism emphasizes our similarities.
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§ 157. Der Gedanke an den Selbstmord ist ein starkes Trostmittel: mit ihm kommt man gut über manche böse Nacht hinweg.
#53Obligation9119Posted 11/24/2012 6:02:02 AM
What happens if you go to heaven and your wife goes to hell you may ask?

Well the answer is that you go to heaven and your wife goes to hell. Think about it once your in one place or another nothing happens to either of you except for the things that happen in either place so you just answered your own question and my post is useless.
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#54SirThinkALotPosted 11/24/2012 6:22:09 AM
countzander posted...
When the Bible says "there will be no marriage in heaven," the statement comes as a surprise only because the casual reader has his own idea of love.


Its worth keeping in mind that Jesus was speaking at a time when marriage was less about romantic love, and more about social stability: Familial bonds, child rearing, and ensuring that women were cared for. Hell most people didnt have much(if any) choice in who their spouse would be.

It makes sense, in that context that this institution would pass once the world was perfected. However that context also seems to make it unlikely he was speaking in reagards to romance. And in fact books like Song of Songs seems to, if not directly encourage, at least certainly take a great deal of delight in romance between men and women.
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#55countzanderPosted 11/24/2012 2:01:21 PM
anavriN posted...
^^
There's an interesting point here. Christianity tends to subvert usual (sociobiological) values we have: love to those close to us and contempt/hate for those on the other side of the fence. But by preaching hatred of the family and love for enemies, Christianity pushes people towards a calculated egalitarianism that borders on a dystopia.

The French philosopher Levinas made a tantalizing point about love: it's basically an égoïsme à deux (roughly translated: a bond of selfishness / a union of egoism), real love is to be blind to the other, because you love one person more than you love all other 7,000,000,000 on this planet combined.

Fact is that for love, most people would let the World burn. I know I would.

But Christianity is even more communistic than communism: divine love (set above our human conceptions of love) is that all humans are equal compared to one, infinite standard. That's the crucial difference between polytheism and monotheism: the gods of polytheism were of this world, often sublimations of local values and aspirations, but the One God of monotheism transcends the world, being above and beyond it. Polytheism emphasizes the differences between people, monotheism emphasizes our similarities.


Christianity doesn't teach hatred for the family. I think you're misinterpreting that thing Jesus said about putting God before your family. Jesus wasn't advocating hatred of family. Rather, if a person has to make a choice between God and man, he should always choose God--not that a person loves his family less but that he loves God more.

And egalitarian societies are supposed to be a good thing, unless you want to feel more important than someone else. Marx and Engels were on to something.
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#56countzanderPosted 11/24/2012 2:07:07 PM
SirThinkALot posted...
countzander posted...
When the Bible says "there will be no marriage in heaven," the statement comes as a surprise only because the casual reader has his own idea of love.


Its worth keeping in mind that Jesus was speaking at a time when marriage was less about romantic love, and more about social stability: Familial bonds, child rearing, and ensuring that women were cared for. Hell most people didnt have much(if any) choice in who their spouse would be.

It makes sense, in that context that this institution would pass once the world was perfected. However that context also seems to make it unlikely he was speaking in reagards to romance. And in fact books like Song of Songs seems to, if not directly encourage, at least certainly take a great deal of delight in romance between men and women.


And in our context, we have good reason to believe that love is just a biochemical imbalance. The ancient way of marriage, one that ignored concepts like romance and instead focused on economics, seems better than ours. People fall in love, get married, fall out of love (chemical imbalances are not permanent), and then get divorced. In the ancient world, where people had practical marriages, I would think that divorce would have been much less common than it is today.
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#57anavriNPosted 11/24/2012 2:28:50 PM
Christianity doesn't teach hatred for the family. I think you're misinterpreting that thing Jesus said about putting God before your family. Jesus wasn't advocating hatred of family.

There are several verses that openly tell you to hate your family.
For instance:

Matthew 10:34-39 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household. Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

Matt. 23:9 “call no one your father on earth, for you have one Father—
the one in heaven”

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother,
and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and
his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
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§ 157. Der Gedanke an den Selbstmord ist ein starkes Trostmittel: mit ihm kommt man gut über manche böse Nacht hinweg.
#58countzanderPosted 11/24/2012 11:32:44 PM
Matthew 10:34-39


Because Jesus knew his message would cause discord among people. I think a paraphrase of the first part could be something like "WARNING: IF YOU FOLLOW JESUS, PEOPLE WILL HATE YOU." By rejecting paganism and following an exclusive religion that explicitly says non adherents will be damned, individuals would inadvertently tear their families apart. Family union was an acceptable lost. People unwilling to make such a sacrifice, those who valued their earthly lives, were not worthy of having a better life. That doesn't mean that people should actively hate their families as a result.

Actually, if you read the story of Mary and Martha, you can actually see some of the tension that Jesus' message can cause even among believers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_at_the_home_of_Martha_and_Mary

Matt. 23:9


Translation quirk. The Biblical Aramaic word abba has different connotations than the English word father.

http://bibliobloglibrary.com/p/125
http://www.orthodoxresearchinstitute.org/articles/bible/tarazi_name_of_god.htm

Luke 14:26


"To you whom I love I say, let us go on loving one another, for love comes from God. Every man who truly loves is God’s son and has some knowledge of him. But the man who does not love cannot know him at all, for God is love (1 John 4:7-8)."

I don't think Jesus meant that his followers were supposed to literally hate their parents. I mean, Jesus cared enough for his own mother to charge one of his disciples to look after her, and the Epistles tell even children to obey their parents. I think the verse you cited is a hyperbole, like Jesus' suggestion to gouge out your eyes rather than lust or that a rich man's going to heaven is just as likely as a camel going into the eye of a needle. The point being that God always come before family.
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#59HeroicSomaCruzPosted 11/25/2012 9:22:26 PM
kozlo100 posted...
Coincidentally, this question, and the philosophical and theological issues relating to it, are where my personal path to atheism began. Of course it's not the only reason I'm atheist now, not even a primary one I'd say, but it was the first question I asked that I couldn't find a sufficient answer for.


I don't feel that I'm an atheist, as I do believe in God. But at the same time, I don't know what to believe. It seems every path of Christianity (Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, etc.) teaches a different belief. And speaking of Catholics, the whole sex scandal that came out and still happens today, has driven a lot of people from faith. What happens to the victims, and for the perpetrators, why did they do it and who will they go to?

Plus, the Bible always gets bashed on Facebook. I always read things about how it says women are to be treated as second-class citizens, and homosexuality is wrong, and it's okay to murder and torture people, living and dead. People believe in an all-loving, all-forgiving God, yet also believe in eternal damnation.

It's not that I don't believe, it's that I don't know what to believe in anymore.
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