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How do you guys cope with questioning your religious beliefs(christianity)?

#21SirThinkALotPosted 11/16/2012 7:05:12 PM
I deal with questions by searching for answers until I find them. Regarding the issues you brought up:

-Evolution. A lot of people misunderstand what a scientific theory is or they're just anti-science and won't accept it. It's a fact. How do some of you guys find a line between it and your beliefs?


I dont think you need to reject evolution to be a Christian. There are a surprising number of Christians who have no problem with the theory, look up 'theistic evolution' or watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ-l_vVo1W8&list=PLo8RW7NMOByCyuzj0Tif8jRBEv0euKO6N&index=9&feature=plpp_video

- Social issues such as abortion and gay marriage. I'm pro-choice and I'm for gay marriage. For a lot of people, those are issues christians should lean one way towards because of their faith


There are Christians on just about every part of the political spectrum. I personally dont have much of an opinion on gay marriage one way or another(although I do wonder why we need the government to define 'marriage') and while I personally think abortion is wrong, I have reservations about making it illegal for a variety of reasons.

- The age of the earth. The earth isn't 6000 years old. Once again this comes back to people being anti-science and using the bible to make these claims.


See my comments on evolution above.

- Whether or not Jesus was real. This is one of my biggest concerns since I don't want to accept it on principal.


Theres very few, real, credible historians who would deny that Jesus was a real person. In addition to the Gospel accounts and the smattering of information in Paul's letters, Jesus was discussed by non-Christians historians such as Tacitus and Josephus(although Josephus discussion is of dubious value for various reasons).

- Why God only choose to relay his message to people in one area of the world if it's supposed to be something that's universal.


I'm not sure how this makes it any less universal.
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#22DarkContractorPosted 11/16/2012 7:08:26 PM(edited)
God did relay the message to the world. All of us get callings in our heart, it's whether or not we choose to accept them. The Jews were selected because at the time they were the least educated group in the world, so that the message still successfully being transmitted around the world would further glorify God, for it is His doing.

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#23TheRealJiraiyaPosted 11/17/2012 10:41:10 AM
OzymandiasIV posted...
From: TheRealJiraiya | Posted: 11/16/2012 6:03:46 PM | #015
I honestly doubt you couldn't find at least one person crazy enough to do any given thing.


Certainly not enough to think that people using abortion as a regular means of birth control is exactly a common issue. And yes, I really doubt that more than a handful of women have ever had more than 2 or 3 abortions for no reason other than they didn't want to be pregnant.

And your numbers are seriously misleading. There may be 7 billion people, but something like 52% of those come with the equipment necessary for pregnancy. Not all of them become pregnant or even have sex, not all of them have effective equipment, not all of them will live long enough to become pregnant, and not all of them live in a place where abortions are even available (due to a lack of medical equipment or because all forms of abortion in their country are outlawed). And quite a few of them also have sex responsibly. So that number is far less than 7 billion.


Why are you arguing with me? It appears we agree. I never said it was prevalent or worth considering, simply that, if done, it would be immoral. It was an example to demonstrate that the fetus does have value, just less value than the mother.
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#24OzymandiasIVPosted 11/17/2012 12:06:50 PM
From: TheRealJiraiya | Posted: 11/17/2012 1:41:10 PM | #023
Why are you arguing with me?


Because you mentioned women getting regular abortions as a form of birth control as though that's something that actually happens, when it's not. If you're going to talk about such a heated subject as abortions, you shouldn't mention something as ludicrous as that, because it's just going to give some nutjob more ammo, and nutjobs tend to associate with more nutjobs that'll believe that garbage. If you really don't think it happens, you should have just not said anything.

And you weren't exactly clear in your first post that that was just a hypothetical scenario, and that became even less clear when you said there were enough people in this world that you could find some people that actually do that.
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#25TheRealJiraiyaPosted 11/17/2012 3:03:33 PM
I was drawing a moral line and using hypothetical scenarios to elaborate. At no point did I make anything resembling a claim for the prevalence of that scenario in the real world. The point of it is that the fetus has value.
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#26fudrickPosted 11/17/2012 4:01:58 PM
OzymandiasIV posted...
Because you mentioned women getting regular abortions as a form of birth control as though that's something that actually happens, when it's not.


Can you prove that?
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#27DarkContractorPosted 11/17/2012 6:49:51 PM
how do you prove that?
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#28SirThinkALotPosted 11/18/2012 7:07:28 AM
DarkContractor posted...
how do you prove that?


The obvious way would be to see how often women get abortions. I dont know if they'll be avaliable or not though....
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#29Julian_CaesarPosted 11/18/2012 12:25:02 PM
From: psoesm | #001
-Evolution. A lot of people misunderstand what a scientific theory is or they're just anti-science and won't accept it. It's a fact. How do some of you guys find a line between it and your beliefs?


A lot of people are stupid. Or alternatively, they're not stupid, they just don't want to go to the trouble of reconciling science and faith. They'd rather just believe "God did it all at once" without realizing that God could have done it any way He wanted to.

- Social issues such as abortion and gay marriage. I'm pro-choice and I'm for gay marriage. For a lot of people, those are issues christians should lean one way towards because of their faith


Only in America, where the Republicans realized that pandering to quasi-religious political associations was a fantastic way to steal the votes of the WASP majority. Again, a lot of people are stupid.

- Whether or not Jesus was real. This is one of my biggest concerns since I don't want to accept it on principal.


Well this is where the rubber meets the road. You're going to have to decide for yourself what you think "truth" is...because that determines how you will judge whether something's "proof" is sufficient. And the really tough part is that there isn't any way to "prove" which kind of "truth" is best. You just have to decide. Is it science? Are you going to only accept the "truth" as that which you can see or hear? Or is it Jesus? Are you going to accept that "truth" can encompass things which cannot be seen or heard?

This is what it means to have "faith." I strongly encourage you to steer away from apologetics at this point, to be honest. The vast majority of that field is trying to use science to prove that Christianity is true...which is the complete ass-backwards way to go about it. You cannot prove Jesus' resurrection by science. It simply can't be done, because nothing about the resurrection is scientific.

I understand your concern about accepting Jesus on principle (or principal? Actually not sure which word is right, here). It goes against everything we're taught in school from an early age. And not because school is demonic or anti-Christian, but because school is scientific. The problem is that God is not. If you truly want to have faith, just have it. There is no magic formula, no 12-step intervention, no rulebook, no map, and no equation.* There can be no prior (scientific) assurance that what you believe is true, only stories from those who have gone before.

I can personally tell you that struggling with this concept of faith was 2 years of mental hell for me. I didn't know what was right and what was wrong. I tried so hard to prove Christianity via science that I lost sight of what my faith was supposed to look like. It wasn't until I realized the unscientific-ness of God that my faith finally made sense. The thing is, God doesn't want us to reach Him by our own intellect. That is what would be happening if we could "prove" the validity of faith in Him. Our minds would be the source of truth, by our analysis of what we see. We would be worshiping our own minds and intellectual discoveries/achievements in the name of worshiping God.


*--There's some debate as to whether faith comes from God, or whether it is a decision that we make ourselves. I will tell you that the best answer is "both." But since we are not God, all we can do is pray when it comes to the part we get from Him...our decision is the thing we can change. So that's why I emphasize it here. Plus I think that part of faith is more important when you first have faith, because it's the part that is resisting (since God is very willing to bestow faith on a new believer).
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#30Julian_CaesarPosted 11/18/2012 12:29:19 PM
To clarify, the "social issues" you brought up are things I classify as "political issues." The Bible says to respect life (i.e. no abortion unless parents genuinely don't want a severely deformed child, or the mother would die otherwise) and that homosexuality is sin (Paul made this explicitly clear in Romans). But those are issues of personal morality, not state-sanctioned rules. Allowing abortion is the natural progression of a society of free-will individuals, many of whom are not Christian...ditto for homosexual marriage. Whether or not they get civil benefits due to living together is completely immaterial to the issue of sin.
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