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Christian extremists hoping for the rapture are a sad lot

#51Burning_WolfXPosted 11/18/2012 2:20:14 PM
Suibom posted...
You said in your very first post that the Orthodox church never taught the rapture. You said that it was a made up doctrine of the 1600's. And today you're saying that it will happen after the tribulation.

Yes, you are unsure. Yes, you are making this up as you go. No, I don't debate with people unsure of their position as they tend to make things up as they go rather than concede points.

OW does this. You're doing this. I'm not going to discuss this with you.


I do not believe in "the Rapture" as only the chosen, lucky few being brought before God, as the doctrine in the 1600's states. All of us, both just and unjust, will be gathered before God at the last.

Suibom posted...
What's sad is that you're so close to the truth. We only vary by a few events. You believe our rapture happens after the tribulation, when really it happens just before the wrath of God is poured out. Jesus, Paul, and John all say this. You believe we go through that judgment, but Scripture says we're not appointed for His wrath.

I have already disproven the evidence you've tried to bring in. If you have more, feel free to point me to it, and we can talk about that, too.

I still like you, love you as a brother in Christ, but you're not in a position to teach when you are unsure of the subject.

I am hardly unsure about the subject, I assure you.

When I mean "rapture," I do not mean "Christians get taken to God so we can avoid all the mean and nasty things happening to the world." Instead, I mean "We ALL get taken before God, because it's JUDGMENT TIME, BABY."

If you look, the Seven Bowls only happens to the wicked. The Christians are indeed spared God's wrath. However, they are not taken off the earth.

In Revelation 16:15, Christ says, “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”

In Revelations 18:4-7, it is clear that some of "God's people" dwelled in Babylon prior to her destruction:

And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached[b] to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. 6 Render to her just as she rendered to you,[c] and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her. 7 In the measure that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow; for she says in her heart, ‘I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.’

Now, if all the Christians were raptured up to God before the seven bowls, and all those who belonged to the kingdom of the Beast were spending all their time giving God the bird, what would be the point of Christ making this announcement? And if God is telling people to come out of Babylon before she is destroyed, "lest you receive of her plagues," meaning there are people not guilty of following the Antichrist or the Beast and are exhorted to flee Babylon before it's being destroyed, then obviously the Christians are still on the earth after the fall of Babylon and the Second Coming of Christ, and have not yet been "raptured".
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Sometimes I'd like to ask God why He allows poverty, suffering, and injustice when He could do something about it. But Im afraid He'd ask me the same thing.
#52SuibomPosted 11/18/2012 2:31:36 PM
And to do that, you have to ignore Jesus's words that the elect will be taken at the trumpet while the rest are left for the wrath of God.

Your version does not fit the whole of Scripture. At some point, you have to sacrifice something to make your version fit.

Go back and look at my 4 reasons. Mine fits with no omissions.
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"Remember those who are in prison, as though in prison with them, and those who are mistreated, since you also are in the body." Hebrews 13:3 ESV
#53OrangeWizardPosted 11/18/2012 3:20:28 PM
I like how Suibom thinks that an argument that is "made up" is somehow automatically invalid.
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Hi, I'm Larry the shivering chipmunk
Brr, I'm cold, I need a sweater.
#54SuibomPosted 11/18/2012 3:23:36 PM
I do too.

They typically are.

Yours were.
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"Remember those who are in prison, as though in prison with them, and those who are mistreated, since you also are in the body." Hebrews 13:3 ESV
#55SuibomPosted 11/18/2012 3:37:52 PM
I imagine the conversation in your head went something like this:

Suibom: "If the person in 2 Thess 2 isn't the Antichrist, who is it?"

OW: "Crap, I don't know what to say.."

OW Watchtower Program: "Don't you concede! Think of something!"

OW: "Like what? I don't have an answer!"

OWWP: "I don't care! Say anything except that he's right!"

OW: "Um... Uh... We weren't told this at the Hall!"

OWWP: "If you don't say something, I swear to Jehovah, I'm going to..."

Commercial advertising a Dana Carvey Greatest Hits Collection from Saturday Night Live comes on the TV: "Could it be... SAAAAATAN?!?"</ChurchLady>

OW: "It's Satan!"

OWWP: </face palm> "You've got to be kidding me..."

OW: "What?!? Oh man, stupid stupid stupid!!!"

OWWP: "He's never going to let you live this down, you know..."
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"Remember those who are in prison, as though in prison with them, and those who are mistreated, since you also are in the body." Hebrews 13:3 ESV
#56OrangeWizardPosted 11/18/2012 3:46:06 PM
From: Suibom | #055
Suibom: "If the person in 2 Thess 2 isn't the Antichrist, who is it?"

OW: "Crap, I don't know what to say.."

OW Watchtower Program: "Don't you concede! Think of something!"



I like how saying "I don't know, let me do some research on that and get back to you" is apparently equivalent to conceding the argument and having one's family name turn into a symbol of disgrace.

Time to put you back into your little box with LastManStanding.
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Hi, I'm Larry the shivering chipmunk
Brr, I'm cold, I need a sweater.
#57SuibomPosted 11/18/2012 3:54:27 PM
If that's what you had said, you could say that.

But that's not what you said.

You shot off a made up answer, tried to weasel out before you got caught, and got caught anyways.

It's not my fault you jump into discussions unprepared and expect me to wait for you to go do your homework. At least say so if that's the case. But don't lie and make up stuff to avoid saying you're wrong or at least clueless.

I can respect a student. I can't respect a weasel.
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"Remember those who are in prison, as though in prison with them, and those who are mistreated, since you also are in the body." Hebrews 13:3 ESV
#58Chaos ScadePosted 11/18/2012 4:21:42 PM
Suibom posted...
You said in your very first post that the Orthodox church never taught the rapture. You said that it was a made up doctrine of the 1600's. And today you're saying that it will happen after the tribulation.


Keep in mind that we aren't premillennial either - we believe that the current age is the millennium (not some future literal 1000 years after the physical return of Christ) and that all that is left is the final loosing of Satan from his bonds, the bodily return of Christ, the general resurrection to judgement, and the renewing and joining of heaven and earth for eternity. If you want to mix words up, I suppose you could say that Burning Wolf is talking about a "post-Tribulation Rapture," but it's not really anything of the sort, because we don't believe in two distinguishable events that can be accurately labelled "the Rapture" and "the Resurrection of the living and the dead". There is simply the Resurrection of all people at the end of this present age that coincides with the return of Christ, and then it's game over. That's not really what's meant when one talks about "the Rapture".
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Taste the fountain of immortality.
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#59SuibomPosted 11/18/2012 4:27:53 PM
So you don't believe Satan is deceiving anyone during this age (what you call the Millennium)?
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"Remember those who are in prison, as though in prison with them, and those who are mistreated, since you also are in the body." Hebrews 13:3 ESV
#60Burning_WolfXPosted 11/18/2012 7:51:53 PM(edited)
Suibom posted...
So you don't believe Satan is deceiving anyone during this age (what you call the Millennium)?

What's this even supposed to mean or imply?

EDIT: If this question is asking what I think it's asking, then yes, of course Satan is still deceiving people. He's just been defeated, and all he can do now is try to corrupt the minds of men, instilling evil hearts, vice and despair to whatever extent he can.
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Sometimes I'd like to ask God why He allows poverty, suffering, and injustice when He could do something about it. But Im afraid He'd ask me the same thing.