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BSF study for tonight: God blesses those who exemplify faith in him.

#31Dathrowed1Posted 11/20/2012 8:44:35 PM
JonWood007 posted...
So we should just trust the Bible then? ignore all contradicting evidence and just believe? Sorry, that's not how I roll.


You could have fooled me. I am saying the evidence isn't strong enough for you to dismiss the account the alternative

Yes, Sennacherib may have been biased, but who is to say the Bible isn't? I actually trust sennacherib's account over the Bible's for 2 reasons: 1) it doesn't rely on supernatural explanations in its account and 2) Assyria is so much bigger than Judah was. It's not surprising for Assyria to just dominate Judah. The Bible's account relies on the fact that God smote hundreds of thousands of people in order to turn it to victory. Sennacherib's account relies on the fact that they pwnt Hezekiah like everyone else. Sennacherib's account is more plausible by far, even if he were biased.


Except Sennacherib's account doesn't say he ever captured Jerusalem. Instead later Hezekiah sends a one tribute and Sennacherib never shows his face in Judah again. Sounds like a bad movie. Also Berossus and Herodotus have accounts that say the Assyrians met defeat at Judah.
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#32JonWood007Posted 11/20/2012 9:23:07 PM
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Why should I believe an account that says God smited hundreds of thousands of people and sent an empire reeling over the idea that Jerusalem was sieged into submission and Hezekiah was made a tributary ruler? Which one REALLY sounds more realistic to you?

Also, your writers drew their claims from the Bible. So the heck what?
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#33Dathrowed1Posted 11/20/2012 9:53:44 PM
JonWood007 posted...
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Why should I believe an account that says God smited hundreds of thousands of people and sent an empire reeling over the idea that Jerusalem was sieged into submission and Hezekiah was made a tributary ruler? Which one REALLY sounds more realistic to you?

Also, your writers drew their claims from the Bible. So the heck what?


Sennacherib never said he laid siege to the city. He says he had Jerusalem surrounded, then was later at home and Hezekiah. My point isn't that you should believe Jehovah had an angel kill 185,000 Assyrians, it's that Sennacherib's account is pretty dubious by itself. Berossus and Herodotus didn't get their accounts from the bible. They differ and I don't think they were educated in Hebrew.
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#34JonWood007Posted 11/20/2012 10:08:34 PM
Berossus and Herodotus werent around when it happened. They were writing later. They are secondary sources.

Surrounding Jerusalem = a siege.
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#35Dathrowed1Posted 11/20/2012 10:21:02 PM
JonWood007 posted...
Berossus and Herodotus werent around when it happened. They were writing later. They are secondary sources.

Surrounding Jerusalem = a siege.


I doubt the bible was the account they got theirs from.

Doesn't hide that Sennacherib left out actually invading it, negotiations, or a surrender.
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#36JonWood007Posted 11/20/2012 10:29:18 PM(edited)
He didn't invade it. When did I ever say he ENTERED Jerusalem? Stop putting words in my mouth.

I think a surrender is implied because it talks about tribute and all.

In my third campaign I marched against Hatti. Luli, king of Sidon, whom the terror-inspiring glamor of my lordship had overwhelmed, fled far overseas and perished.... As to Hezekiah, the Jew, he did not submit to my yoke, I laid siege to his strong cities, walled forts, and countless small villages, and conquered them by means of well-stamped earth-ramps and battering-rams brought near the walls with an attack by foot soldiers, using mines, breeches as well as trenches. I drove out 200,150 people, young and old, male and female, horses, mules, donkeys, camels, big and small cattle beyond counting, and considered them slaves. Himself I made a prisoner in Jerusalem, his royal residence, like a bird in a cage. I surrounded him with earthwork in order to molest those who were his city's gate. Thus I reduced his country, but I still increased the tribute and the presents to me as overlord which I imposed upon him beyond the former tribute, to be delivered annually. Hezekiah himself, did send me, later, to Nineveh, my lordly city, together with 30 talents of gold, 800 talents of silver, precious stones, antimony, large cuts of red stone, couches inlaid with ivory, nimedu-chairs inlaid with ivory, elephant-hides, ebony-wood, boxwood and all kinds of valuable treasures, his own daughters and concubines.


And before you say "well the Bible described tribute too", look carefully. THe Bible says the Assyrians went home empty handed, Sennacherib mentioned tribute AFTER the siege. Sennacherib increased the tribute and then left him alone when he got what he wanted.
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#37Dathrowed1Posted 11/20/2012 11:40:03 PM
He didn't invade it. When did I ever say he ENTERED Jerusalem? Stop putting words in my mouth.

I think a surrender is implied because it talks about tribute and all.


I am not, I think it's telling that he didn't say invade Jerusalem nor that Jerusalem ever surrendered then. Why Hezekiah send a tribute to Sennacherib when he was in Nineveh? Why no mention of negotiations?

And before you say "well the Bible described tribute too", look carefully. THe Bible says the Assyrians went home empty handed, Sennacherib mentioned tribute AFTER the siege.


The bible doesn't say the Assyrians went home empty handed actually.

Sennacherib increased the tribute and then left him alone when he got what he wanted.


And what was that? Sennacherib got tribute from the other cities when he was there, in this case we have to believe that he was promised to get a tribute after he went back to Nineveh. That makes no sense, especially since Sennacherib gives not conclusion to the end of this siege.
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#38JonWood007Posted 11/21/2012 12:03:29 AM
Ok. Wow. I'm beginning to think you're arguing with me for the sake of arguing with me. Read it again. Sennacherib besieged Jerusalem, and then backed off when Hezekiah gave more tribute....including his daughters. Why do they need to include specifics on the surrender? The tribute IS the surrender. Sennacherib doesn't need to negotiate. He humiliated Hezekiah and besieged him into submission (a siege is simply surrounding a city in order to make sure no one gets in or out if you don't know that btw...cuts off supply lines and all...the point is to get the city to surrender).

The Bible mentions the original tribute, which Sennacherib was not happy with. Hezekiah stripped the gold and stuff from the temple, but Sennacherib was like "no no no, you can do better" and besieged him. So Hezekiah was like...ok ok...I'll give you everything I have, and my daughters and concubines. What more is there to explain?

I'm really beginning to think you're trying to poke holes in the story Sennacherib tells for the sake of poking holes in it. He demanded tribute, wasn't satisfied, so stepped up the tribute...Hezekiah complied. That's the conclusion.
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#39OzymandiasIVPosted 11/21/2012 12:24:20 AM
From: Polish_Crusader | Posted: 11/19/2012 10:46:26 PM | #001
1.)Has god changed your life? Do you seriously expect God to do wonders in your life if you dont even have a mustard seed of faith in him?


Seems to me like those are exactly the type of people God should be doing wonders for, but I'm an atheist, so what do I know?
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#40Dathrowed1Posted 11/21/2012 12:48:43 AM
JonWood007 posted...
Ok. Wow. I'm beginning to think you're arguing with me for the sake of arguing with me. Read it again. Sennacherib besieged Jerusalem, and then backed off when Hezekiah gave more tribute....including his daughters. Why do they need to include specifics on the surrender? The tribute IS the surrender. Sennacherib doesn't need to negotiate. He humiliated Hezekiah and besieged him into submission (a siege is simply surrounding a city in order to make sure no one gets in or out if you don't know that btw...cuts off supply lines and all...the point is to get the city to surrender).

The Bible mentions the original tribute, which Sennacherib was not happy with. Hezekiah stripped the gold and stuff from the temple, but Sennacherib was like "no no no, you can do better" and besieged him. So Hezekiah was like...ok ok...I'll give you everything I have, and my daughters and concubines. What more is there to explain?

I'm really beginning to think you're trying to poke holes in the story Sennacherib tells for the sake of poking holes in it. He demanded tribute, wasn't satisfied, so stepped up the tribute...Hezekiah complied. That's the conclusion.


I mean Sennacherib was a known liar, so really there's no reason to believe him. His conclusion isn't complete, you are filling the holes yourself. He surrounds the city, then retires home and waited for the tribute. I doubt he would have went for that, considering he wasn't a nice guy and enjoyed humiliating his enemies. We have an unreliable narrator here, so no one can be sure if he really got the tribute he said he did.
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