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Question for christians who accept evolutionary theory

#21anavriN(Topic Creator)Posted 11/24/2012 11:44:38 AM
SirThinkALot posted...
Actually I dont think it solves the problem. At most it just pushes it back a step: Even if we accept A+Es sin caused the world to 'fall' from a perfect state, we can ask Why did God create A+E with the ability to sin in the first place?


The implicit idea is that ushaving free will is valued higher than avoiding its consequences.

I'll agree that it's a weak answer, but at least it is an answer. If you remove the 'free will' constraint from an omnipotent, benevolent god, it makes no sense why it would use evolution a means to our existence.
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#22LastManStandingPosted 11/24/2012 11:55:16 AM
Christians who accept evolutionary theory I pray for you.
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#23Julian_CaesarPosted 11/24/2012 3:11:22 PM
From: anavriN | #001
But now I wonder, how does this effect your image of God? Do you experience cognitive dissonance for believing in a benevolent and omnipotent god who uses such a slow and cruel process to create life, or do you think there is a good/necessary reason why God did this?


Slow and cruel by what definition? Hardship is what strengthens a person, or an animal...not comfort. It says in Scripture we are refined by being put IN the fire, not by eating smores which were cooked in the fire.

Finally, do you think neuroscience is the best explanation for consciousness, or does this require a supernatural element (i.e. soul)?


I think the soul is still required.
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#24Julian_CaesarPosted 11/24/2012 3:12:28 PM
From: countzander | #008
"Either Christianity or science" is a false dichotomy.


Yayyyyyyyyy
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#25bfslick50Posted 11/24/2012 7:36:19 PM
anavriN posted...
Yes, but a literal reading of Genesis at least offered a solution to the Theodicee: you can blame humans for the imperfections in this world.
Believing that a god that is both benevolent and omnipotent would kick-start such a slow and cruel process as evolution really begs the question.


I'm pretty confident Adam & Eve ate meat, so from a pig's perspective, things were no more better in the Garden of Eden. Animals eating each other is not a result of man's sin. Furthermore, evolution has to do with not everyone getting a chance to mate. No where in the Bible is that promise made.

LastManStanding posted...
Christians who accept evolutionary theory I pray for you.


I pray for those who don't accept it.
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#26SirThinkALotPosted 11/25/2012 9:07:03 PM
anavriN posted...
The implicit idea is that ushaving free will is valued higher than avoiding its consequences.


Perhaps, but the Bible says nothing regarding that, and in any case that opens a whole new set of problems.

I'll agree that it's a weak answer, but at least it is an answer.


Actually it isnt. An answer would explain ALL evil. A literal reading of Gensis doesnt. And hell if you strip out all the extra Biblical material and focus just on what the Bible actually says, then it doesnt even explain most: The Bible only sort-of, kind-of hints at original sin, and only identifies a few specific 'natural' evils as a consequence of the 'fall'(pain in childbirth, human death, the need to work for food).
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#27fudrickPosted 11/25/2012 9:37:33 PM
bfslick50 posted...
I'm pretty confident Adam & Eve ate meat


I'm pretty confident they didn't...
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#28JamesB0ndOO7Posted 11/25/2012 10:21:39 PM
From: fudrick | #027
bfslick50 posted...
I'm pretty confident Adam & Eve ate meat


I'm pretty confident they didn't...


It never says they do or do not.
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#29fudrickPosted 11/25/2012 10:37:17 PM
JamesB0ndOO7 posted...
It never says they do or do not.


He says they can eat plants, and that animals can eat plants, but then

And, I mean, I'm also pretty confident Adam and Eve never existed in the first place. I'm just working under the assumption that the bible is true here.
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#30JonWood007Posted 11/25/2012 10:40:46 PM
Polish_Crusader posted...
The worst part about evolution is the lack of inbetween skeletons. Like on that diagram of the ape turning into the human. Dont you think we would have millions of half ape, half human corpses? This is why i know evolution never existed because no scientist can find them. There is only ape corpses and human corpses.

Spiritually speaking, evolution is godless and completely marginalizes the divine creation that our race actually is. We were given dominion over this planet and all the life on it for a reason. We were made in gods image (literally). Evolution does not explain so many things in uncountable. Why are asians, africans, and central americans completely different looking when all live next to the equator? Because there are genealogical factors that speciation cannot effect. Skin tone is affected by geopgraphic region, obviously.

In the end, evolution just does not make sense. Gods story of creation in genesis is just fine with me. I am content.


They did find some, at least between monkey ancestors and humans. It's just that the apologetics complex calls them all hoaxes (even though only a handful are, not all of them).

Also, different races, in a sense, IS evolution. Evolution is like a flip book. The reason there are different races of human, why there are different types of dogs, etc. That's all evolution. It happens slowly dude. Species are determined when one organism cannot mate with another anymore. other than that, there is no boundary between one and the next.

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Anyway, I find Christianity to be extremely problematic given evolution is true. Christianity is founded on the assumption that God made a perfect world, and then Adam and Eve screwed it up. They sinned, sin entered the world, and we have been living with it for thousands of years until Jesus came around and saved us from sin.

Without Adam and Eve....when did sin enter the world? Can't it be argued that God made an imperfect world that was full of sin? If so, why is he punishing us for what is in our nature, and the world's nature? Where does myth end and reality begin with the Bible? Is the law really God inspired? if so, why is it so irrelevant today? Why did God wait until now to do all this stuff? Isnt the judeo-christian irrelevant in the larger scheme of things? I mean, the universe is 14 trillion years old, but Christianity is only 2000. What about the 1 million or so years before christ? Did they sin? Are they in hell? Do we have souls? When do we get souls? Did neanderthals have souls? if so, what about monkeys? If so, what about other mammals? if so, what about the fish? The birds? The dinosaurs? bacteria? Are they responsible for their actions? on what basis does God decide who is responsible? If humans only because of intelligence, I'd argue we're still not ready, since so much of Christianity is against human nature.

When you take Christianity out of the young earth worldview, it becomes so riddled with philosophical questions and holes it's ridiculous.

There's also the question of whether we really are made in God's image, why God so preoccupies himself with our behavior, where angels/demons/God was before humanity, etc. We're largely irrelevant in the universe. And tbqh, Christianity begins to look more and more like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E15IC3YKv8g) as far as God interacting with human beings. Id God exists, we're on such different levels it makes no sense for him to be so preoccupied with our every day lives, and the concept of infinite punishment for infinitesimal sins just makes no sense.
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