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If God is omnipotent....

#1Joe605Posted 11/26/2012 9:17:38 AM
If God is omnipotent (meaning he possesses unlimited power), and Satan is his direct enemy, why does God continue to allow Satan to wreak havoc on the world? Why doesn't he just defeat him with his omnipotence, what is he waiting for?
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#2TheRealJiraiyaPosted 11/26/2012 9:19:46 AM
Clearly God has some kind of overall plan.

It is my opinion that God is using this situation to create spiritually and morally mature people who can fight evil in this world so he can move them to the next one without having to worry that this sort of thing will happen again

I also think this thing people do where they blame Satan for the evil in the world is pretty misled. Satan certainly contributed, but so did we. Thats kind of the point of Christianity.
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#3Joe605(Topic Creator)Posted 11/26/2012 9:23:57 AM
TheRealJiraiya posted...
Clearly God has some kind of overall plan.

It is my opinion that God is using this situation to create spiritually and morally mature people who can fight evil in this world so he can move them to the next one without having to worry that this sort of thing will happen again

I also think this thing people do where they blame Satan for the evil in the world is pretty misled. Satan certainly contributed, but so did we. Thats kind of the point of Christianity.


If God loves me, why does he allow Satan to contribute?
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Bowling IS a sport.
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#4TheRealJiraiyaPosted 11/26/2012 9:25:49 AM
Joe605 posted...
TheRealJiraiya posted...
Clearly God has some kind of overall plan.

It is my opinion that God is using this situation to create spiritually and morally mature people who can fight evil in this world so he can move them to the next one without having to worry that this sort of thing will happen again

I also think this thing people do where they blame Satan for the evil in the world is pretty misled. Satan certainly contributed, but so did we. Thats kind of the point of Christianity.


If God loves me, why does he allow Satan to contribute?


For the same reason he allows me or any other person in your life to contribute. One of the consequences of creatures having free will is the potential they have to inflict evil upon others.

Just like you have contributed. If God loves me, why does he allow you to contribute?

The atmosphere of evil that people have created in this world makes it a good testing and maturing grounds for the next world.
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"If a man does not know to what port he is sailing, no wind is favorable" -Seneca
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#5OrangeWizardPosted 11/26/2012 9:44:33 AM
You'd call God a tyrant if he just up and killed Satan, because that's what tyrants to do people who question their rule.
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#6OzymandiasIVPosted 11/26/2012 9:49:05 AM
From: TheRealJiraiya | Posted: 11/26/2012 11:19:46 AM | #002
It is my opinion that God is using this situation to create spiritually and morally mature people who can fight evil in this world so he can move them to the next one without having to worry that this sort of thing will happen again


Every man sins. Every man has his price. If this is God's way of weeding out the week, Heaven is going to be mostly empty, or this will happen again. Or, from my understanding of Christianity, it won't happen again without the Devil, because he is temptation and evil incarnate, and without him, there would be no evil and no temptation.

I also think this thing people do where they blame Satan for the evil in the world is pretty misled. Satan certainly contributed, but so did we. Thats kind of the point of Christianity.


We have committed evil because Satan has given us the ability and the knowledge to commit evil (again, from my understanding of when I was Christian). Without him, Adam and Eve would have never disobeyed God.
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#7OzymandiasIVPosted 11/26/2012 9:51:54 AM
From: TheRealJiraiya | Posted: 11/26/2012 11:25:49 AM | #004
Just like you have contributed. If God loves me, why does he allow you to contribute?

The atmosphere of evil that people have created in this world makes it a good testing and maturing grounds for the next world.


He allows us to inflict evil because we have a chance of changing, doing good, and earning Heaven. Satan is beyond redemption, and his power is often too great for people. I'd say the distinction is pretty clear and that your answer is insufficient. The two are not comparable.
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#8JonWood007Posted 11/26/2012 9:54:00 AM
TheRealJiraiya posted...
Joe605 posted...
TheRealJiraiya posted...
Clearly God has some kind of overall plan.

It is my opinion that God is using this situation to create spiritually and morally mature people who can fight evil in this world so he can move them to the next one without having to worry that this sort of thing will happen again

I also think this thing people do where they blame Satan for the evil in the world is pretty misled. Satan certainly contributed, but so did we. Thats kind of the point of Christianity.


If God loves me, why does he allow Satan to contribute?


For the same reason he allows me or any other person in your life to contribute. One of the consequences of creatures having free will is the potential they have to inflict evil upon others.

Just like you have contributed. If God loves me, why does he allow you to contribute?

The atmosphere of evil that people have created in this world makes it a good testing and maturing grounds for the next world.


But since we're talking about eternal hell as a consequence, you'd think that he'd want to stop people from going to hell in the first place instead of sacrificing himself to himself to save you from himself.

Also...someone on r/atheism brought up an interesting point about this yesterday. God is perfect. Perfect meaning as good as you can possibly be. He made Adam, adam sinned. Adam was not perfect. Why would God make creation that isn't perfect. It's perfectly clear you can rationalize everything as "divine plan, blah blah blah", but put on YOUR thinking cap here. Why would God make a sin prone world to begin with, only to punish us for it. Why does God care about free agents being spiritually mature. When I think of God trying to guide people in this way, I keep thinking of (Portal 2 spoilers)Wheatley trying to make the boxes with legs stand on the button, and being frustrated because they don't have the intelligence to stand on the button...which is basically getting frustrated for stupid reasons. It's not in our nature to be perfect, I think that's clear by now, but if we don't God punishes us....and I kinda made this connection in my last portal playthrough, but when I really think about it, God acting in this way really reminds me of Glados....obsessed with testing us and then killing us.
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#9OrangeWizardPosted 11/26/2012 10:00:16 AM(edited)
*sigh*

Haven't we been over this, like, hundreds of times?
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Hi, I'm Larry the shivering chipmunk
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#10OzymandiasIVPosted 11/26/2012 9:59:46 AM
From: JonWood007 | Posted: 11/26/2012 11:54:00 AM | #008
But since we're talking about eternal hell as a consequence, you'd think that he'd want to stop people from going to hell in the first place instead of sacrificing himself to himself to save you from himself.

Also...someone on r/atheism brought up an interesting point about this yesterday. God is perfect. Perfect meaning as good as you can possibly be. He made Adam, adam sinned. Adam was not perfect. Why would God make creation that isn't perfect. It's perfectly clear you can rationalize everything as "divine plan, blah blah blah", but put on YOUR thinking cap here. Why would God make a sin prone world to begin with, only to punish us for it. Why does God care about free agents being spiritually mature. When I think of God trying to guide people in this way, I keep thinking of (Portal 2 spoilers)Wheatley trying to make the boxes with legs stand on the button, and being frustrated because they don't have the intelligence to stand on the button...which is basically getting frustrated for stupid reasons. It's not in our nature to be perfect, I think that's clear by now, but if we don't God punishes us....and I kinda made this connection in my last portal playthrough, but when I really think about it, God acting in this way really reminds me of Glados....obsessed with testing us and then killing us.


I don't get that, either. God could have made us perfect. He didn't. So why test us to see if we're good enough for the next world? What is it about the next world that requires a certain level of "goodness"? Couldn't God just gauge whether we'd be good enough to get in? Or couldn't he give us free will but imbue us with enough goodness that he wouldn't have to worry about us being morally mature? Or remove anything from us that would cause us to sin? It's cruel to create being that he knows full well will likely do X, creating a world for them full of opportunities and reasons to do X, and then condemn them to hell for eternity for not avoiding doing X. Couldn't he at least put those people in the corner for a few hours and let them try again? Hell is kind of extreme.
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Sucking at something is the first step to becoming sort of good at something.