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Psychedelics and religious experience

#31ProudcladPosted 12/6/2012 12:09:30 PM
LastManStanding posted...
Proudclad posted...
I don't understand. Either God influences circumstances or he doesn't. If he doesn't, there's no point in pursuing a "mystical experience" since we can't explicitly prove causation as we would with circumstances / answered prayer.


Yes God influences circumstances, allows things to happen so you will change your ways or tests you


I agree.
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proudclad LAYING DOWN THE SMACK - Error1355
#32ProudcladPosted 12/6/2012 12:09:43 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#33LastManStandingPosted 12/6/2012 12:40:55 PM(edited)
Being tested is good. God tests you to give you tasks .
People do fail those tests, need big humility to be able
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Divine Mercy - God Loves you
You will know them by their fruits says the Lord
#34zyzzvya01(Topic Creator)Posted 12/6/2012 5:18:55 PM
From: almasbaby | #026
I've never done any of those drugs, just acid. Is it fair to compare a mystic to a schizophrenic? Schizophrenics are troubled people. Mystics are not. Mystics rejoice in their experience and are positively influenced by them, whereas schizophenics require medical care to keep the voices away so they won't be bothered by them. Just a thought.


Schizophrenia/psychosis is a broad term, which covers paranoid types (what you're referring to) as well as those with grandiose delusions and those who cannot function whatsoever. A lot of schizophrenics do not need medical care, in fact medical treatment more often hinders their recovery if they are still in the early stages.

http://psychrights.org/research/Digest/Chronicity/myths.pdf

From: Proudclad | #029
I don't understand. Either God influences circumstances or he doesn't. If he doesn't, there's no point in pursuing a "mystical experience" since we can't explicitly prove causation as we would with circumstances / answered prayer.


There are resources in altered states of consciousness we can draw upon to aid our functioning in everyday life. This is something shamanic people have known about and been involved with for thousands of years, and something the west is only just warming up to. I'm interested in finding out if there is a divine component to the psychedelic experience, and if there is, what is it, what is the quality of it?

LMS, again, get the **** out of my topic. You're posting unrelated gibberish. If you want to crap on about your faith, make your own damn topic.
#35kozlo100Posted 12/6/2012 5:49:41 PM
I guess the thing I'm trying to get my head around here is what you're trying to experience via the psychedelics.

My thinking is that if you believe in a personal god, this god shouldn't have any trouble making himself heard should he actively want to communicate with you, or have you experience any particular aspect of his being. Under that assumption, psychedelics should be unnecessary, if not detrimental.

So are you trying to contact an impersonal god, or perhaps some aspect of a personal god that he isn't actively trying to show you?

Basically, where is my thinking off the rails in regards of what the purpose of using these substances in this way?
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The problem, then, is that if subjective worlds are experienced too differently, there occurs a breakdown in communication. -- Philip K. Dick
#36zyzzvya01(Topic Creator)Posted 12/6/2012 6:10:05 PM
I thought I was clear, I am interested in seeing IF there is any divine component to the psychedelic experience, if there is, what the quality of that experience is, and how that experience relates to other peak and mystical experiences.

This is only one potential use for psychedelics, I'm more interested in the capacity of entheogenic compounds to aid personal growth and development, to foster creativity and to increase one's ability to understand reality. There are some notable studies around the use of LSD/Mescaline in controlled settings and their effects on creativity from the sixties, before the research ban was implemented, that show marked improvement in an individuals ability to problem solve and to work creatively due to an experience with a psychedelic substance.

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/01/70015?currentPage=all

There's an overview of the issue if you can't be bothered tracking down the studies.
#37kozlo100Posted 12/6/2012 6:19:48 PM
Ah, well I guess my question would be better redirected to someone who thinks they've had such an experience.
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The problem, then, is that if subjective worlds are experienced too differently, there occurs a breakdown in communication. -- Philip K. Dick
#38almasbabyPosted 12/7/2012 6:05:49 PM
kozlo100 posted...
I guess the thing I'm trying to get my head around here is what you're trying to experience via the psychedelics.

My thinking is that if you believe in a personal god, this god shouldn't have any trouble making himself heard should he actively want to communicate with you, or have you experience any particular aspect of his being. Under that assumption, psychedelics should be unnecessary, if not detrimental.

So are you trying to contact an impersonal god, or perhaps some aspect of a personal god that he isn't actively trying to show you?

Basically, where is my thinking off the rails in regards of what the purpose of using these substances in this way?


I agree with this wholeheartedly. Most mystics throughout history, including myself, regard the experience as one brought about by God's will. It's not something you can reach out for and capture. It's something that's given at a time of God's choosing, not your own.
#39zyzzvya01(Topic Creator)Posted 12/7/2012 7:03:36 PM
Shamanic cultures would disagree.
#40almasbabyPosted 12/7/2012 11:49:16 PM
zyzzvya01 posted...
Shamanic cultures would disagree.


Maybe they're experiencing something other than God. Think about it. Is God at our beck and call, or are we at his? Is this the way God set it up, that he created certain hallucinogens that are a pathway to him? Maybe, but I don't think so. Certainly not in my experience. And it seems kind of impersonal if he did - Sure, you can know me. Just chew on this.