This is a split board - You can return to the Split List for other boards.

Why Does God Act Surprised? (Christianity)

#11Julian_CaesarPosted 12/7/2012 4:37:28 AM
From: JonWood007 | #009
Now, you would think that if God is perfect, his agenda cannot be changed, but then you need Moses and all to reason with God to spare Israel at times. And then God's like, hmm, good point, I didn't think of the fact that the Egyptians would think I'm a jerk if I smited everyone. You would think an omnipotent being would know that. Oh well, it makes good dialogue for story purposes.


Or, you know, God was doing what a good teacher does and lets His students arrive at the correct conclusion without making it absurdly obvious. That is to say, making them actually THINK instead of leading them by the nose (which is occasionally required, sure, but doesn't lead to any spiritual growth).
---
Every day the rest of your life is changed forever.
#12Faust_8Posted 12/7/2012 9:27:51 AM
Julian_Caesar posted...
From: Faust_8 | #006
Let alone that it's literally saying that two things are the same AND different at once. You can't look at two things individually and say they're different but when you compare them, say they're the same. It is by definition impossible.


If I draw a circle and a square on a sheet of paper and you tell me they can't possibly be the same, my response is that they're simply limited perspectives of a cylinder. That is, 2-D representations (from different views) of a 3-D object. While the representations are indeed NOT the same, they are in fact referring to the SAME object. In the same way, God/Jesus/Holy Spirit are not the same thing from OUR perspective, because we lack the ability to see them in their true state of unified being (on a plane which transcends time and space)...but that does not mean they cannot all be "representations" of the same "single" being.


Unless I'm really missing something you can't take any cross-section anywhere on a cylinder and get a square.

And your argument would make sense if you people actually stuck to "they're all one being, just different parts of it" but then later you turn around and say they're separate beings too.

You can't have it both ways. If you stuck to one of them I would totally understand it. I mean, even people have "sides" to them, but you don't refer to each side as if they're different people with different knowledge, memories, or abilities.
---
The supernatural says that if you act a certain way you might avoid suffering. But reality says you came from the stars...
#13SuibomPosted 12/7/2012 9:36:24 AM
You're really missing something, Faust.
---
"Remember those who are in prison, as though in prison with them, and those who are mistreated, since you also are in the body." Hebrews 13:3 ESV
#14SuibomPosted 12/7/2012 9:37:54 AM
And as well, Faust, it's called a paradox... Hellooooooo?
---
"Remember those who are in prison, as though in prison with them, and those who are mistreated, since you also are in the body." Hebrews 13:3 ESV
#15DoGCyNPosted 12/7/2012 10:35:20 AM
I really don't know why anyone ever came to the conclusion that he was.

Well here's one place:

John 1:1, 14

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
---
2 Corinthians 12:7-10
#16kozlo100Posted 12/7/2012 10:52:36 AM
Faust_8 posted...
Unless I'm really missing something you can't take any cross-section anywhere on a cylinder and get a square.


Were the cylinder's length equal to it's diameter, a cross section taken lengthwise would be a square.
---
The problem, then, is that if subjective worlds are experienced too differently, there occurs a breakdown in communication. -- Philip K. Dick
#17JonWood007Posted 12/7/2012 11:28:05 AM
Or, you know, God was doing what a good teacher does and lets His students arrive at the correct conclusion without making it absurdly obvious. That is to say, making them actually THINK instead of leading them by the nose (which is occasionally required, sure, but doesn't lead to any spiritual growth).


Then why did he reward Abraham for wanting to sacrifice his son? Or, one again, that Jepthah guy for sacrificing his daughter? Or Moses' predecessor Joshua, for killing without question. Sure, the Bible is full of courageous followers, but God also rewards those who do not question and learn.

You could use the same argument to argue God made me an atheist as a teaching experience, seeing how I've learned a crapload from losing my faith tbqh.
---
Desktop: Phenom II X4 965 | 4 GB DDR3 | GTX 580 | 1 TB HD | W7 | 650W Antec | 1600x900
Laptop: A6 3400m | 4 GB DDR3 | HD 6520g | 500 GB HD | W7 | 1366x768
#18Julian_CaesarPosted 12/9/2012 11:17:56 PM
From: Faust_8 | #012
Unless I'm really missing something you can't take any cross-section anywhere on a cylinder and get a square.


Sorry, poor example. I should have said rectangle. I mean yeah, a square is possible, but the typical cylinder shape (like a gas tank) would have a rectangle profile.

And your argument would make sense if you people actually stuck to "they're all one being, just different parts of it" but then later you turn around and say they're separate beings too.


Well you have a good point, and I think I used the analogy incorrectly. Or rather I used it correctly, but only to describe how the Trinity can be "unified" on a higher plane (without explaining how it can be "separate" at the same time). Correct application, narrow scope.

The paradox of "unity" and "separation" is just that, a paradox. But God exists on a different plane...and it's the rules of this universe that prevent a thing from being simultaneously "unified" and "separate." So the cylinder analogy can also work on a different level, if I change it to mean "square = unified" and "circle = separate". That is to say, the Trinity appears "unified" and it also appears "separate", even if those two representations (square and circle) are not the same thing. Whereas in its true form (cylinder), the Trinity is both "unified" AND "separate"...or perhaps it's more correct to say that the Trinity transcends those notions altogether, just as any 3-D object transcends its 2-D silhouette descriptors.

Of course, that does not explain how such a thing is practically possible. I kinda suspect that's the point, though. God Himself (regardless of your view on the Trinity) isn't a practically possible Being in the first place.

From: JonWood007 | #017
Then why did he reward Abraham for wanting to sacrifice his son? Or, one again, that Jepthah guy for sacrificing his daughter? Or Moses' predecessor Joshua, for killing without question. Sure, the Bible is full of courageous followers, but God also rewards those who do not question and learn.


Well I stand corrected. I hadn't considered it from that perspective, that God can teach by lecturing as well as by letting people do their own thinking.

So thank you for pointing out that God was apt to use different teaching methods depending on the circumstance ;)
---
Every day the rest of your life is changed forever.