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How much of the bible do you Christians here believe as fact?

#51TheRealJiraiyaPosted 12/31/2012 1:41:39 PM
Not responding to this poll because the word choice is loaded.

I dont believe everything in the Bible is 100% literal and historical, and I believe its pretty clear, contextually, when it is or isnt.
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#52lastheroPosted 12/31/2012 1:46:02 PM
kozlo100 posted...
lasthero posted...
You can't have a non-literal true story - that makes no sense. If you don't believe the story happened - no real Adam, no actual creation week, et cetera - then it is a fictional story for you.


I agree with you that a story about something that didn't happen is fiction, but I think that statement doesn't really do justice to the way people look at the bible.

I had a friend once explain to me how there can be true stories that never happened, and false stories that did. It's a little bit playing with semantics, but the main point is that it is very possible, and often very effective, to convey truths via fiction.


Very true. It is possible to convey truth via fiction. But, by the definition of what fiction is, it's still fiction. That's all I'm saying.
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#53TheRealJiraiyaPosted 12/31/2012 1:48:23 PM
lasthero posted...
kozlo100 posted...
lasthero posted...
You can't have a non-literal true story - that makes no sense. If you don't believe the story happened - no real Adam, no actual creation week, et cetera - then it is a fictional story for you.


I agree with you that a story about something that didn't happen is fiction, but I think that statement doesn't really do justice to the way people look at the bible.

I had a friend once explain to me how there can be true stories that never happened, and false stories that did. It's a little bit playing with semantics, but the main point is that it is very possible, and often very effective, to convey truths via fiction.


Very true. It is possible to convey truth via fiction. But, by the definition of what fiction is, it's still fiction. That's all I'm saying.


Aside from the literal meaning of "fiction" there is also the connotation. In this context, it comes across as derogatory and vague
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#54kozlo100Posted 12/31/2012 1:58:36 PM
lasthero posted...
Very true. It is possible to convey truth via fiction. But, by the definition of what fiction is, it's still fiction. That's all I'm saying.


Sure, I agree. I just wanted to point out that fiction being fiction doesn't really rule out the possibility of a non-literal true story, since 'true story' doesn't have to mean 'non-fictional' in all cases.
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#55lastheroPosted 12/31/2012 1:59:21 PM
It's only deragatory if you think calling a story fiction means it's devoid of truth. Animal Farm is a fictional story, but it conveys a lot of truth about oppression and tyranny.
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#56TheRealJiraiyaPosted 12/31/2012 2:00:16 PM
lasthero posted...
It's only deragatory if you think calling a story fiction means it's devoid of truth. Animal Farm is a fictional story, but it conveys a lot of truth about oppression and tyranny.


When you divide it, vaguely, along the lines of "fact or fiction" it carries the connotation of truth or falsehood IMO
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#57Julian_CaesarPosted 12/31/2012 5:51:45 PM
From: lasthero | #055
It's only deragatory if you think calling a story fiction means it's devoid of truth.


Don't you think a non-Christian calling the Bible fiction qualifies as such?
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#58lastheroPosted 12/31/2012 6:07:15 PM
Julian_Caesar posted...
From: lasthero | #055
It's only deragatory if you think calling a story fiction means it's devoid of truth.


Don't you think a non-Christian calling the Bible fiction qualifies as such?


It would depend on the non-Christian.

I think even the most staunch atheist would have to admit that parts of the Bible have some semblance of truth. There probably was a King David, or someone like him, there probably was a Jesus to some degree. It's the supernatural aspects that most people quibble with.

Then again, the option is obviously aimed at Christians, so it's less about what a non-Christian would call it and more about what a Christian would call it. I suppose I can agree that the options could be more specific, just for the sake of clarification, but I still don't think there's anything wrong with a person who feels that certain people who take stories as non-literal putting fiction. It would probably be better to replace 'fiction' with 'false' and add an open for non-literalists.
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#59C_MatPosted 1/5/2013 5:12:29 PM
lasthero posted...
You can't have a non-literal true story - that makes no sense. If you don't believe the story happened - no real Adam, no actual creation week, et cetera - then it is a fictional story for you.

This has nothing to do with my opinion on Christianity - saying a story is fictional does not mean it is completely false, or that there isn't some element of truth to it. It doesn't matter how much of the story is true or how much of it is made up or why or any of that. If the actual event didn't happen like that, it's fictional story. We don't classify stories by literal and nonliteral.


You can be non-literal and still true. For example:

Jesus said, "I am the door," meaning he is the way to heaven.

Is Jesus saying he's an actual wooden door? No.
Is Jesus saying He is the way from one place to another? Yes.
Is He being literal? No.
Is He still telling the truth? Yes.
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#60lastheroPosted 1/5/2013 5:18:16 PM
C_Mat posted...
lasthero posted...
You can't have a non-literal true story - that makes no sense. If you don't believe the story happened - no real Adam, no actual creation week, et cetera - then it is a fictional story for you.

This has nothing to do with my opinion on Christianity - saying a story is fictional does not mean it is completely false, or that there isn't some element of truth to it. It doesn't matter how much of the story is true or how much of it is made up or why or any of that. If the actual event didn't happen like that, it's fictional story. We don't classify stories by literal and nonliteral.


You can be non-literal and still true. For example:

Jesus said, "I am the door," meaning he is the way to heaven.

Is Jesus saying he's an actual wooden door? No.
Is Jesus saying He is the way from one place to another? Yes.
Is He being literal? No.
Is He still telling the truth? Yes.


There is a difference between telling a metaphor and telling a STORY as a metaphor. To go back to the Animal Farm example, Animal Farm is a metaphorical story for the Russian Revolution. However, it is still a story about talking animals. It's a fictional story.

Again, your problem is that you seem to think calling a story fiction means it's absolutely false or that it doesn't hold any truth. That's not, well...true.
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