This is a split board - You can return to the Split List for other boards.

isn't the justification for faith is circular?

#1Imperator420Posted 12/25/2012 8:05:09 PM
From the point of view of someone who isn't a Christian or a Muslim, or some other religious denomination that emphasizes suprarational confidence, what appeal does faith have? The two major Abrahamic religions claim that faith is a virtue in and of itself, independent of and superseding reason. But believing utterly in someone's word, without any regard as to the facts involved, doesn't appear to be a particularly effective strategy; the idea that faith is good isn't confirmed by our daily lives.

Now, if a supernatural entity, possibly the one responsible for the creation of the universe, demanded that I be faithful, it would make sense for me to comply. However, if the only reason to accept that a supernatural entity makes any such demands is because I'm "supposed" to have faith in him, the argument becomes circular. I.e., I'm supposed to have faith in God because God said so, and I'm supposed to believe that God said so because I'm supposed to have faith. How could that possibly appeal to anyone who doesn't already have faith?
---
I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast ... for it repenteth me that I have made them. - Genesis 7
#2linkkhalid89Posted 12/25/2012 8:10:37 PM
I don't think it's meant to appeal to those who don't already have faith.
#3Imperator420(Topic Creator)Posted 12/25/2012 8:12:36 PM
But of course it is. Proselytizing is a major part of religions like Christianity, and surely most Christians wouldn't argue that the best reason to have faith in God is that he demands/wants it.
---
I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast ... for it repenteth me that I have made them. - Genesis 7
#4Imperator420(Topic Creator)Posted 12/25/2012 8:22:03 PM
And I just noticed the typo in the topic title. Oh well.
---
I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast ... for it repenteth me that I have made them. - Genesis 7
#5countzanderPosted 12/25/2012 10:44:13 PM
It is circular. According to the Bible. you have to believe in God before you can find him.
---
http://i.imgur.com/k1nGh.jpg
#6SirThinkALotPosted 12/26/2012 7:30:27 AM
Can you please provide a definitino of 'faith.' Because it sounds you are talking about blind faith....
---
Learn real history and economics at liberty Classroom
http://www.libertyclassroom.com/dap/a/?a=1305
#7Auron772Posted 12/26/2012 8:00:48 AM
SirThinkALot posted...
Can you please provide a definitino of 'faith.' Because it sounds you are talking about blind faith....


Is there any other kind?
---
"I have two rules I follow. The first, never kill someone without a reason. The second, you can always find a reason to kill someone." - Saren
#8OrangeWizardPosted 12/26/2012 8:03:38 AM
Auron772 posted...
SirThinkALot posted...
Can you please provide a definitino of 'faith.' Because it sounds you are talking about blind faith....


Is there any other kind?


Yes. Why don't you look up the term in a dictionary for a start.
---
"Let's make this quick, I'm double-parked." - Two-face
#9SirThinkALotPosted 12/26/2012 8:58:17 AM
Auron772 posted...
SirThinkALot posted...
Can you please provide a definitino of 'faith.' Because it sounds you are talking about blind faith....


Is there any other kind?


Yes.
---
Learn real history and economics at liberty Classroom
http://www.libertyclassroom.com/dap/a/?a=1305
#10Imperator420(Topic Creator)Posted 12/26/2012 1:14:27 PM
From the dictionary I have on hand,

1. strong or unshakeable belief in something, esp. without proof or evidence
2. a specific system of religious beliefs, e.g. the Jewish faith

There are other types of faith but religions seem to emphasize the 'without evidence' part. There are people who claim that they believe in Christ because they've seen evidence, but that's approaching the territory of folk religion. Theologians uphold faith as a virtue in and of itself, so pointing to evidence is really neither here nor there.
---
I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast ... for it repenteth me that I have made them. - Genesis 7