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I need a definition of faith that is precise.

#301AynRandySavagePosted 1/26/2013 3:08:32 PM
cyclonekruse posted...
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If I don't persuade him of something it should be because my argument was lacking, not any sidebar I gave. If he uses that as a reason to dismiss my points that is not my fault. He himself has expressed a similar sentiment saying that whether or not he is being hypocritical doesn't affect his points.


Well that's hypocritical of you, as you admit you're biased against whatever points I would make.
#302Guy_with_a_gunPosted 1/26/2013 5:26:39 PM
I like this view of faith:

"The believer will open his mind to the truth on condition that it fits in with his preconceive ideas and wishes. Faith on the other hand, is an unreserved opening of the mind to the truth, whatever it may turn out to be. Faith has no preconceptions; it is a plunge into the unknown. Belief clings but faith lets go."

This way the notion of God is left out of the picture, but there is still faith.
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I <3 FPS
#303GegengegengegenPosted 1/28/2013 8:25:36 AM
cyclonekruse posted...

If I don't persuade him of something it should be because my argument was lacking, not any sidebar I gave. If he uses that as a reason to dismiss my points that is not my fault.


You've admitted that you're biased against his points though. If he fails to convince you of soemthing, you're admitting the very strong possibility that that's your fault.
#304cyclonekrusePosted 1/28/2013 9:58:28 AM
From: Gegengegengegen | #303
You've admitted that you're biased against his points though. If he fails to convince you of soemthing, you're admitting the very strong possibility that that's your fault.

If I dismiss his points because of my bias against him and not because of his argument's flaws, then that is or would be my fault, yes. Why wouldn't it be? That applies to me just as much as anyone else.

On the other hand, because I'm aware of my bias, I can potentially combat it better than if I were unaware of it. Am I always successful? Quite possibly not. Nobody's perfect. But admitting my bias helps keep me honest.
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Locke: "Why do you find it so hard to believe?" || Jack "Why do you find it so easy?!" ||
Locke: "It's never been easy!"
#305GegengegengegenPosted 1/28/2013 11:20:40 AM
cyclonekruse posted...
From: Gegengegengegen | #303
You've admitted that you're biased against his points though. If he fails to convince you of soemthing, you're admitting the very strong possibility that that's your fault.

If I dismiss his points because of my bias against him and not because of his argument's flaws, then that is or would be my fault, yes. Why wouldn't it be? That applies to me just as much as anyone else.

On the other hand, because I'm aware of my bias, I can potentially combat it better than if I were unaware of it. Am I always successful? Quite possibly not. Nobody's perfect. But admitting my bias helps keep me honest.


You can admit your bias without telling somebody that you're biased against them. I'm still at loss as to how you think telling him you were biased against him would help your argument or help anyone else to understand it.
#306AynRandySavagePosted 1/28/2013 2:00:40 PM(edited)
Gegengegengegen posted...
cyclonekruse posted...
From: Gegengegengegen | #303
You've admitted that you're biased against his points though. If he fails to convince you of soemthing, you're admitting the very strong possibility that that's your fault.

If I dismiss his points because of my bias against him and not because of his argument's flaws, then that is or would be my fault, yes. Why wouldn't it be? That applies to me just as much as anyone else.

On the other hand, because I'm aware of my bias, I can potentially combat it better than if I were unaware of it. Am I always successful? Quite possibly not. Nobody's perfect. But admitting my bias helps keep me honest.


You can admit your bias without telling somebody that you're biased against them. I'm still at loss as to how you think telling him you were biased against him would help your argument or help anyone else to understand it.


Well, at the risk of sounding harsh, the most reasonable explanation is that he's trying to rationalize his lack of control. But really there's no way to rationalize what he's doing, which explains why his supposed justifications for posting here are so tone-deaf. Nobody cares what he "honestly" thinks about me, the fact that he's biased, while a problem is something only he needs to be concerned with.
#307cyclonekrusePosted 1/28/2013 3:38:04 PM
Gegengegengegen posted...
You can admit your bias without telling somebody that you're biased against them. I'm still at loss as to how you think telling him you were biased against him would help your argument or help anyone else to understand it.

It doesn't help my argument. It just keeps me honest. I find it preferable to being fake.
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Locke: "Why do you find it so hard to believe?" || Jack "Why do you find it so easy?!" ||
Locke: "It's never been easy!"
#308AynRandySavagePosted 1/28/2013 3:41:59 PM
cyclonekruse posted...
Gegengegengegen posted...
You can admit your bias without telling somebody that you're biased against them. I'm still at loss as to how you think telling him you were biased against him would help your argument or help anyone else to understand it.

It doesn't help my argument. It just keeps me honest. I find it preferable to being fake.


It doesn't do any such thing. You can be honest with yourself without broadcasting it to others. Even you agreed(before you disagreed and admitted that delving into personal insults was acceptable)
#309GegengegengegenPosted 1/29/2013 12:05:28 PM
AynRandySavage posted...
cyclonekruse posted...
Gegengegengegen posted...
You can admit your bias without telling somebody that you're biased against them. I'm still at loss as to how you think telling him you were biased against him would help your argument or help anyone else to understand it.

It doesn't help my argument. It just keeps me honest. I find it preferable to being fake.


It doesn't do any such thing. You can be honest with yourself without broadcasting it to others. Even you agreed(before you disagreed and admitted that delving into personal insults was acceptable)


exactly
#310cyclonekrusePosted 1/29/2013 1:15:16 PM
From: Gegengegengegen | #309
exactly

Pardon me if I don't take your personal opinion as gospel.

Also, what you're agreeing with is a bit of a non sequitur. Just because it is possible for some people to be honest with themselves without telling others doesn't make it true for everyone or true every time. So justifying "it didn't keep you honest" with "you can be honest without broadcasting" does not work.

Let me ask you, what was I dishonest about? And can you show that me admitting my bias did nothing to help keep me honest?
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Locke: "Why do you find it so hard to believe?" || Jack "Why do you find it so easy?!" ||
Locke: "It's never been easy!"